bish
Cityscape Skin
Posts: 15
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Post by bish on Feb 1, 2011 23:52:58 GMT -5
I'm not saying it was bad (or anything close to it), but there was definitely a little character lost in some songs without the keys. It wasn't even the solo sections like in Stevie Nix that I missed, it was those parts during Stations, Constructive Summer, and even the little subtle parts in Cattle that you can't hide with another guitar. You need that contrasting sound in there. They were still awesome shows, but hopefully this isn't a long term decision. I can't be the only one that thinks this way right?
There are bigger tragedies in the world than being compared with Bruce Springstein.
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wackojacko
Hoodrat
I was not involved at the Northtown Mall.
Posts: 267
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Post by wackojacko on Feb 2, 2011 11:35:25 GMT -5
yeah, for me, springsteen is possibly the only person who's better imo than THS
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Post by delboydrums on Feb 2, 2011 14:05:32 GMT -5
As above, a tip in Q magazine - that Springsteen fans would like THS - was what got me interested, and Franz's playing was a big facet of that.
Am trying to keep an open mind about the keylessness. At least til after Saturday.
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Post by kojiroshinkara on Feb 2, 2011 15:10:59 GMT -5
$10 says they won't bring back keys for at a minimum the rest of this tour.
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wackojacko
Hoodrat
I was not involved at the Northtown Mall.
Posts: 267
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Post by wackojacko on Feb 2, 2011 15:21:13 GMT -5
would be a huge shame.
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Post by jawbone on Feb 2, 2011 15:45:24 GMT -5
Saw both shows at MHoW and really loved both. Still I am surprised by the decision to go without a key player. Going into the shows I asked myself how they could play First Night and Slapped Actress without keys. Sure enough they did just that that Monday night. Now I'll say I liked both songs as played but also think they're lesser without keys. The same goes for Stuck Between Stations - it was still a lot of fun to shout the words, fist pump the air and hear those big chords, but it's not as good a song. I thought the First Night performance is rife for speculation. Steve played a beautiful, soft solo during the song where that hadn't been one before. It fit nicely and I hope it's an indication that he'll get more opportunities to flash his talents as the band moves forward. I've seen four or five shows with Steve and I think he's a great addition musically but two guitars can't make up for the more prominent or subtle key parts on a lot of their songs. In the short run, I think the band can get away with it - they've got an eager audience and a lot to love without a piano player. That said, I know which version of the band I think is poised for better things.
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Post by delboydrums on Feb 2, 2011 16:50:47 GMT -5
Go Selvidge! A Welsh dragon on your guitar does wonders!
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Post by davebudbainbo on Feb 2, 2011 17:46:55 GMT -5
It'll be a rare individual who utterly replaces Franz, butyeah. The keys are essential. Still, the right combo of charismatic and keyboard-skilled could bring something extra to each fist-pump.
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Post by nosferatu on Feb 2, 2011 18:57:32 GMT -5
see, my issue is this: I have spent a lot of money on buying tickets for OTHER PEOPLE who are not as big Hold Steady fans as I am, and sort of expected I'd be able to show them the band that is on the records, that has always turned up. I am now concerned that the people I am bringing will not be as impressed as I was the first time I saw THS by their dynamic range which is, musically, what sets them apart - and the keys play a big part in that opinion. They have been fans-by-proxy for a long time while I have been banging on about them, and their favourite album is therefore BaGiA, which was my favourite during the "convincing them to like the band" stage. Now it's got to the crunch stage where they get to see a show for the first time, what do people think?
Do they think my friends will not be as impressed as they would be with a THS with keys?
Or do the think it's no big deal as they know no different?
Me? I'm easy. I'm excited to see them without keys for the first time. I think it's gonna be a revelation, but making new people understand how much of a revelation it actually is may be difficult.
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bigrob
Midnight Hauler
i guess i knew it was coming
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bigrob on Feb 3, 2011 10:40:11 GMT -5
I loved Dan, but the keys have been so turned down in the background since he joined up, I don't think it'd even be a major change. I'll see in April. I really just don't want to hear Stevie without 'em.
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Post by whoaman on Feb 3, 2011 22:19:11 GMT -5
i'm just gonna go ahead an say that's wrong. perhaps he didn't record anything, but the last time i saw them play with franz, they played our whole lives, separate vacations and barely breathing. also, tad's ego needs to go just a notch down. franz inevitably changed the sound or attitude of any song he was on. specific examples for me would be cutters, spectres and stevie nix.
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stringer
Has Status
Seein' my duty clear.
Posts: 2,702
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Post by stringer on Feb 4, 2011 5:23:15 GMT -5
But... But... Constructive Summer..! I agree he made a difference to whichever song he was on. Most notably live. Honestly, isn't the reason we fell in love with Franz because of his persona? And the voice... But he's doing so well as a solo act. His talent really gets put forward with it. And although sometimes I do think about just how wonderful "she said if heaven's hypothetical" would sound with Franz' vocals, I think it's the best thing for him to be working on his solo stuff, and if THS go sans-keys, then I guess we'll have to deal with it!
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Post by jamesjesusangleton on Feb 4, 2011 10:27:35 GMT -5
i'm just gonna go ahead an say that's wrong. perhaps he didn't record anything, but the last time i saw them play with franz, they played our whole lives, separate vacations and barely breathing. also, tad's ego needs to go just a notch down. franz inevitably changed the sound or attitude of any song he was on. specific examples for me would be cutters, spectres and stevie nix. You think Tad needs to notch down his ego? About the band he formed? About being the main writer of music for that band? Wow. You tell him that then. See what he thinks.
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Post by shinola on Feb 4, 2011 11:23:45 GMT -5
Its the "I've been the main songwriter for a while" bit that comes over as egotistic. Yeah, maybe Tad hasn't had the credit he's due for writing the music to Craig's lyrics - but for him to say he's the "main songwriter" can't be justified unless he also writes lyrics - which he doesn't.
Personally I think this Pitchfork quote, assuming its verbatum accurate (which we can't assume it is) does a serious disservice to Franz and is a partial explanation of why he quit. THS is only as good as the sum of its parts, and Franz was one of those parts.
What can't be argued is that HIW is their lowest selling album to date, and the band are playing to smaller crowds than they have done for years. They have lost all the momentum they gained with Stay Positive. On this UK tour they are playing Academy 2's for chrissake (outside of London). 300 capacity venues. I really fear for the future of the band, which is why I'm trying to hit as many UK gigs as I can - because I do wonder when/if they will be back.
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Post by shinola on Feb 4, 2011 11:26:02 GMT -5
....and going without keys might actually be financial. One less person to pay is important when only 220 tickets have been sold for tonight's Southampton gig.
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meoskop
True Scene Leader
Posts: 709
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Post by meoskop on Feb 5, 2011 1:18:07 GMT -5
You think Tad needs to notch down his ego? About the band he formed? About being the main writer of music for that band? Wow. You tell him that then. See what he thinks. Can we bring popcorn? Or just beer? Because I don't drink the beer and I think there'd be some entertainment value in that event. (actually, I think Tad would just walk away) Edited to add - I think keyless is how they should have gone when Franz left. I liked Dan, but it's hard to be the rebound guy. Sometimes you just need to rethink and regroup.
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Post by motörben on Feb 5, 2011 9:33:02 GMT -5
franz inevitably changed the sound or attitude of any song he was on. specific examples for me would be cutters, spectres and stevie nix. "The harpsichord was Tad's idea." On this UK tour they are playing Academy 2's for chrissake (outside of London). 300 capacity venues. Where'd you get them figures, champ? Glasgow, Dublin, Belfast, Manchester and Leeds are all fairly big. Not too sure about Belfast (500-600ish?) but the others are around the 1000 mark, a bit over even. I reckon The Junction in Cambridge could pack a good 800 people in and all.
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john k
Midnight Hauler
Posts: 2,035
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Post by john k on Feb 5, 2011 10:20:05 GMT -5
dublin academy - 650 capacity belfast spring and airbrake - 500 capacity
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Post by motörben on Feb 5, 2011 10:45:55 GMT -5
Including the balcony, the Academy holds 850
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John
Clever Kid
Posts: 53
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Post by John on Feb 5, 2011 11:50:05 GMT -5
Newcastle they're playing a 2,000 capacity room. I'm not saying it'll be full but well over academy 2 levels
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Post by shinola on Feb 6, 2011 4:15:49 GMT -5
Apologies, I'm totally wrong on the capacities. The gig tonight in Birmingham is Academy 2, and I assumed the other Academies would be the same. But they're not - the rest of them are in the main rooms.
Its also partly because I've seen the band play some real small rooms this past 9 months, both here, in Europe and in Canada - and its frustrating to see a great live band, established for years, not being able to sell out a 300 capacity venue.
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Post by jamesjesusangleton on Feb 6, 2011 14:40:25 GMT -5
Personally I think this Pitchfork quote, assuming its verbatum accurate (which we can't assume it is) does a serious disservice to Franz and is a partial explanation of why he quit. Well, Tad has always been the main writer of music; he is speaking the truth. And what do you expect him to say an interview? "Boo hoo. We're nothing without Franz"? Franz left because he was more interested in promoting his solo album than recording the fifth Hold Steady album. You may speculate on the reasons for him doing that, but I think it's been made pretty obvious from the interviews: he wanted to work in a variety of different styles, not be a full-time member of a rock'n'roll band.
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Post by motörben on Feb 6, 2011 14:43:58 GMT -5
I was under the impression that for the two albums Franz played on as a full-time member, there was a general Finn/Kubler/Nicolay writing credit.
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Post by bigtwink on Feb 6, 2011 14:46:11 GMT -5
Really enjoyed the gig last night in Bristol, although I've got to be honest an say that I thought most of the songs missed the keyboards. For all the double guitar work, it just isn't the same, especially those songs off Boys n Girls and Stay Positive. It is a brave thing to do, and I must say that Heaven is Whenever was a clever move after the overblown Stay Positive, but the likes of Stuck between Stations and Sequestered in Memphis are very pale versions of themselves without the keys. Sorry guys.
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Post by kickingitwithkevin on Feb 6, 2011 14:46:34 GMT -5
On the evidence of last night's show in Bristol, no keys necessary. I was worried prior to the gig, but I think it took approx 8 seconds of Sequestered to realise they still sounded awesome. Maybe even more so. It's been said on the board elsewhere, but it's the idea of Franz with the band that I miss, and not his (admittedly excellent) keyboard contributions.
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