Post by five on May 12, 2010 14:41:54 GMT -5
Hey all. I'm a recent Hold Steady fan, a friend of mine turned me on to Boys and Girls a couple months ago and since then I've been absorbing everything this band has to offer.
I made this the other night (security guard, night shift, woo hoo) and wanted to share it with you.
Here's my Hold Steady timeline. Some notes: feel free to copy, repost, modify, claim as your own, whatever with this work. Much of the chronology or even the descriptions of events aren’t super clear. Only the first four albums - Heaven has some plot-related stuff on it but it's definitely less heavy with it than the others. I came into this band with all the works pre-existing, so it's perhaps easier for me to view it all as an interconnected work than someone who waited years between releases. When it’s clearly characters narrating, I’m going to try to put it when the narration is taking place, rather than what they’re narrating. I've posted this elsewhere and the only complaint I've heard is that the song Stay Positive doesn't belong in the timeline, I'm curious what you all think about my version of events as a whole. This wouldn't have been possible without the Hold Steady Wiki or Songmeanings.net, so thanks where thanks is due
These are the songs outside of the timeline. Many of them are about or at least reference the three main characters. If I missed any songs, they probably belong in this section.
Positive Jam
Stuck Between Stations
You Can Make Him Like You
Massive Nights
Citrus
Chillout Tent
Southtown Girls
For Boston
Arms and Hearts
Navy Sheets
Magazines
Two-handed handshake
If you want to make a playlist, here's the chronological order without the explanations. I'm not sure the best way to share a playlist but if someone tells me or makes one themselves, I'll edit.
Hostile, Mass.
Barfruit Blues
Most People are DJs
Stay Positive
Certain Songs
Knuckles
Milkcrate Mosh
You Gotta Dance
Sweet Payne
Killer Parties
Hot Fries
Curves and Nerves
Modesto is Not That Sweet
The Swish
Girls Like Status
Banging Camp
Your Little Hoodrat Friend
Hornets! Hornets!
Sketchy Metal
Charlemagne in Sweatpants
Hot Soft Light
212-Margarita
Chips Ahoy!
Don’t Let Me Explode
Chicago Seemed Tired Last Night
Both Crosses
Yeah Sapphire
Cheyenne Sunrise
One for the Cutters
Sequestered in Memphis
Multitude of Casualties
Same Kooks
Cattle and the Creeping Things
First Night
Lord, I’m Discouraged
Party Pit
Joke About Jamaica
Ask Her for Adderall
Stevie Nix
Crucifixion Cruise
How a Resurrection Really Feels
Slapped Actress
And here it is, the roughly annotated chronology.
Hostile, Mass.
Holly and Charlemagne meet, drink, fuck, and disappear. She was a Damn Good Dancer. I’m pretty sure Hard Corey is Charlemagne introducing himself to Holly – if that’s true, it’s unclear if Charlemagne is a name he took for himself later or if it’s the omniscient narrator’s name for him.
Barfruit Blues
Another song about the scene, which also introduces Holly and Mary. There’s a lot of setup here, tying Mary to margaritas, and establishing Holly as A [Damn Good] Dancer. This is Holly’s introduction to the scene (the ‘we’), so it’s after she and Charlemagne left Massachusetts but before almost everything else.
Most People are DJs
I’m pretty sure the Weird Talkin Chick is Holly, but it could be anyone really. A bunch of the songs on Almost Killed Me are effectively concurrent, so I’ll just put them in album order.
Stay Positive
As much of a scene song as any on Almost Killed Me, this one looking forward with a bit more perspective.
Certain Songs
The girl in the car could be Holly, but I kind of think this is another song about the scene generally. The delivery of this line is key – at this point, hard drugs really are for the bartenders.
Knuckles
Yet another establishing shot, this one for Gideon. I’m thinking he’s probably not the guy with the tattoo, but that I Just Lied guy is one of the skins he hangs out with (with the same tattoos as Gideon). His people want to at least appear rough, they deal meth, they’re militia men from the middle west.
Milkcrate Mosh
Gideon and Holly meet, and she sucks through his defenses. The first link between Holly and Judas, and as clear an indication you’ll get that Gideon is the Savior.
You Gotta Dance
I’m not quite sure what ‘jumped him in’ refers to, but Charlemagne’s drug problems are the setup for him getting beat. I’m putting this after Milkcrate Mosh mostly to put some space between Gideon and Holly’s meeting and Charlemagne’s run-in with the Skins, because I don’t think Gideon was involved.
Sweet Payne
Charlemagne gets Almost Killed, Holly goes with whoever’s gonna get her the highest. Even though it was Gideon’s gang that beat him, I don’t think Gideon was actually involved in this one – debatable, but it makes Holly’s storyline a little neater. I’m thinking the messed up magicians are meth cookers. Gideon’s the Cowboy on the crosstown bus, relevant to the couple callbacks to cowboys on Separation Sunday.
Killer Parties
What Holly plans to say to Gideon to protect Charlemagne. The last lines are Charlemagne, and I think the line ‘killer parties almost killed me’ is his too.
Hot Fries
Holly and Gideon in California, although I’m not sure which put the milkcrate on their head. Those Party Saviors are looking a little sketchier than they were a song ago in Milkcrate Mosh.
Curves and Nerves
Another California song, this one describing in detail the Sexy Pictures and Photographs. We also get the first sense of the gravity of Holly’s betrayal of Gideon.
Modesto is Not That Sweet
Wrapping up Holly’s California excursion in the form of a conversation between her and Charlemagne.
The Swish
A song about the Scene. I don’t think Me and You are necessarily main characters, but Our Savior is a euphemism for drug supplier, and City Center is still active, and the ‘couple favors’ is probably a prostitution reference.
Girls Like Status
Her tryin to start a revolution is most likely Holly, as referenced in Sketchy Metal. Charlemagne might be ‘he,’ which would also make him the narrator in Your Little Hoodrat Friend.
Banging Camp
The first verse is Holly reminiscing about Charlemagne, while the second is her and Mary (sweet recovery) taking hard drugs for the first time. There’s an argument to be made for Gideon being the one breaking bread and giving thanks, but I kind of doubt it. Also, the first appearance of the Party Pit.
Your Little Hoodrat Friend
The religious imagery makes it pretty clear that Holly is the hoodrat. Holly at this point is into hard drugs (why else the need to rise again?) but not yet into prostitution (I’m not gonna do anything sexual with you). I may be naively taking the lyrics at face value but I’m gonna go with it. The bit about true love washing up on the river is likely a reference to her split with Charlemagne at the end of Almost Killed Me. It’s possible Charlemagne is the narrator, as referenced in Girls Like Status, which would make the bit about her getting him high further in the past than it comes off. I’m not sure though, they probably slept together and ‘I’m not gonna do anything sexual with you’ doesn’t mesh with that.
Hornets! Hornets!
This is one of Holly’s first attempts at prostitution (I’ve never really done that much of this/I have to concentrate when we kiss).
Sketchy Metal
Another Almost Killed Me scene song. ‘Last winter’ would be the same as in Charlemagne and Sweatpants.
Charlemagne in Sweatpants
The first verse is about Charlemagne’s life while Holly is living out her death and resurrection, the second is Holly doing just that. I’m taking ‘you’re damn right we danced’ to be a prostitution reference, and the weather last winter is Holly leaving Charlemagne for Gideon as well as his near-death experience. I’m not quite sure who left defeated and depressed and returned ripping high, I want to say it’s Holly and her patron but it sounds a too epic for that to be it.
Hot Soft Light
Gideon getting busted (‘cutting off all my hair’ is the clue). We can assume he’s lying about being clean, but the drugs have already gone from recreational to medical.
212-Margarita
I originally had this as sort of an epilogue, but I changed my mind when Holly wiped at her nose and she winked – she still has a secret, she hasn’t given up Charlemagne yet. This is Mary and Holly taking care of each other. I’m pretty sure the parts about being sick are about drug side effects, suggesting Mary did indeed join Holly in Banging Camp. The raunchy magazine launch is another reference to Holly’s adventures in California, and Mary is her ‘only sure shot at recovery,’ referenced in Banging Camp.
Chips Ahoy!
Charlemagne gets close with a precognitive girl (Sapphire) before the events of Stay Positive.
Don’t Let Me Explode
Holly and Gideon are planning their next move. Gideon asks about Charlemagne, and Holly lets on that she knows, the betrayal that leads to the events of Stay Positive.
Chicago Seemed Tired Last Night
Judas went up and kissed him.
Both Crosses
Sapphire sees Charlemagne get killed by Gideon.
Yeah Sapphire
Immediately after Both Crosses, Charlemagne is cut but alive. This is the girl from Chips Ahoy!, her precognition saved him.
Cheyenne Sunrise
The reunion of Charlemagne and Sapphire immediately following Yeah Sapphire.
One for the Cutters
A college girl witnesses the events of Both Crosses and has her own personal fallout.
Sequestered in Memphis
After Both Crosses, the police try to figure out what happened. It’s unclear is the narrator is a main character, I think probably not.
Multitude of Casualties
The end of Holly’s and Gideon’s relationship. ‘Getting with her little hoodrat friend’ is used in a very different context from the earlier song, and combined with the casualties and the eulogy make me think it’s a euphemism for violence, particularly the encounter with Charlemagne described in Stay Positive.
Same Kooks
It’s hard to slow down when you’re picking up speed. I’m putting this here because the couplet about the Mississippi River makes me think Both Crosses happened already. The photo shoot thing is probably about the events of Curves and Nerves, making the narrator Gideon and ‘She’ Holly.
Cattle and the Creeping Things
Holly talking about religion and about the past with a stranger. ‘Hard drugs are for bartenders’ is an admonishment now, rather than a statement of fact. She and Gideon are split, and I’m pretty sure the pictures are referring to the porn she made in Curves and Nerves. The lines about Cain and Abel (and ‘murder is for murderers’) refer to Charlemagne’s second near-death experience, this time at the hands of Gideon.
First Night
It sounds like the three main characters are separated at this point, and I think the start of Holly trying to get clean.
Lord, I’m Discouraged
A friend, probably not a main character, witnesses Holly hit bottom after the events of Stay Positive.
Party Pit
Epilogue material, Holly reflecting on all those things she did with just momentum from the party pit. I’m putting it here, as Holly starting to be able to put the past behind her, rather than at the end mostly just because Resurrection or Slapped Actress should be the end. For those making a playlist out of this, your welcome.
Joke About Jamaica
A look at the scene in the aftermath of Stay Positive.
Ask Her for Adderall
Charlemagne’s epilogue shortly after Stay Positive
Stevie Nix
Holly’s gotten high for the first and last time, she’s come to in a confession, so this has to be setting up to Crucifixion Cruise. 33 is the age Jesus died, as well as the age Finn was when the album was released, so choose your favorite meaning.
Crucifixion Cruise
The setup to How a Resurrection Really Feels. This song didn’t make much sense to me until I considered it could be set after Stay Positive, because whatever Holly is, she’s not a murderer. She’s reflecting on her Not Sweet Friend Gideon and his attack on Charlemagne (the Old Connection).
How a Resurrection Really Feels
Today she finally came back.
Slapped Actress
Charlemagne’s own personal Resurrection. At the end because of the meta stuff, but could go before Stevie Nix as easily.
I made this the other night (security guard, night shift, woo hoo) and wanted to share it with you.
Here's my Hold Steady timeline. Some notes: feel free to copy, repost, modify, claim as your own, whatever with this work. Much of the chronology or even the descriptions of events aren’t super clear. Only the first four albums - Heaven has some plot-related stuff on it but it's definitely less heavy with it than the others. I came into this band with all the works pre-existing, so it's perhaps easier for me to view it all as an interconnected work than someone who waited years between releases. When it’s clearly characters narrating, I’m going to try to put it when the narration is taking place, rather than what they’re narrating. I've posted this elsewhere and the only complaint I've heard is that the song Stay Positive doesn't belong in the timeline, I'm curious what you all think about my version of events as a whole. This wouldn't have been possible without the Hold Steady Wiki or Songmeanings.net, so thanks where thanks is due
These are the songs outside of the timeline. Many of them are about or at least reference the three main characters. If I missed any songs, they probably belong in this section.
Positive Jam
Stuck Between Stations
You Can Make Him Like You
Massive Nights
Citrus
Chillout Tent
Southtown Girls
For Boston
Arms and Hearts
Navy Sheets
Magazines
Two-handed handshake
If you want to make a playlist, here's the chronological order without the explanations. I'm not sure the best way to share a playlist but if someone tells me or makes one themselves, I'll edit.
Hostile, Mass.
Barfruit Blues
Most People are DJs
Stay Positive
Certain Songs
Knuckles
Milkcrate Mosh
You Gotta Dance
Sweet Payne
Killer Parties
Hot Fries
Curves and Nerves
Modesto is Not That Sweet
The Swish
Girls Like Status
Banging Camp
Your Little Hoodrat Friend
Hornets! Hornets!
Sketchy Metal
Charlemagne in Sweatpants
Hot Soft Light
212-Margarita
Chips Ahoy!
Don’t Let Me Explode
Chicago Seemed Tired Last Night
Both Crosses
Yeah Sapphire
Cheyenne Sunrise
One for the Cutters
Sequestered in Memphis
Multitude of Casualties
Same Kooks
Cattle and the Creeping Things
First Night
Lord, I’m Discouraged
Party Pit
Joke About Jamaica
Ask Her for Adderall
Stevie Nix
Crucifixion Cruise
How a Resurrection Really Feels
Slapped Actress
And here it is, the roughly annotated chronology.
Hostile, Mass.
Holly and Charlemagne meet, drink, fuck, and disappear. She was a Damn Good Dancer. I’m pretty sure Hard Corey is Charlemagne introducing himself to Holly – if that’s true, it’s unclear if Charlemagne is a name he took for himself later or if it’s the omniscient narrator’s name for him.
Barfruit Blues
Another song about the scene, which also introduces Holly and Mary. There’s a lot of setup here, tying Mary to margaritas, and establishing Holly as A [Damn Good] Dancer. This is Holly’s introduction to the scene (the ‘we’), so it’s after she and Charlemagne left Massachusetts but before almost everything else.
Most People are DJs
I’m pretty sure the Weird Talkin Chick is Holly, but it could be anyone really. A bunch of the songs on Almost Killed Me are effectively concurrent, so I’ll just put them in album order.
Stay Positive
As much of a scene song as any on Almost Killed Me, this one looking forward with a bit more perspective.
Certain Songs
The girl in the car could be Holly, but I kind of think this is another song about the scene generally. The delivery of this line is key – at this point, hard drugs really are for the bartenders.
Knuckles
Yet another establishing shot, this one for Gideon. I’m thinking he’s probably not the guy with the tattoo, but that I Just Lied guy is one of the skins he hangs out with (with the same tattoos as Gideon). His people want to at least appear rough, they deal meth, they’re militia men from the middle west.
Milkcrate Mosh
Gideon and Holly meet, and she sucks through his defenses. The first link between Holly and Judas, and as clear an indication you’ll get that Gideon is the Savior.
You Gotta Dance
I’m not quite sure what ‘jumped him in’ refers to, but Charlemagne’s drug problems are the setup for him getting beat. I’m putting this after Milkcrate Mosh mostly to put some space between Gideon and Holly’s meeting and Charlemagne’s run-in with the Skins, because I don’t think Gideon was involved.
Sweet Payne
Charlemagne gets Almost Killed, Holly goes with whoever’s gonna get her the highest. Even though it was Gideon’s gang that beat him, I don’t think Gideon was actually involved in this one – debatable, but it makes Holly’s storyline a little neater. I’m thinking the messed up magicians are meth cookers. Gideon’s the Cowboy on the crosstown bus, relevant to the couple callbacks to cowboys on Separation Sunday.
Killer Parties
What Holly plans to say to Gideon to protect Charlemagne. The last lines are Charlemagne, and I think the line ‘killer parties almost killed me’ is his too.
Hot Fries
Holly and Gideon in California, although I’m not sure which put the milkcrate on their head. Those Party Saviors are looking a little sketchier than they were a song ago in Milkcrate Mosh.
Curves and Nerves
Another California song, this one describing in detail the Sexy Pictures and Photographs. We also get the first sense of the gravity of Holly’s betrayal of Gideon.
Modesto is Not That Sweet
Wrapping up Holly’s California excursion in the form of a conversation between her and Charlemagne.
The Swish
A song about the Scene. I don’t think Me and You are necessarily main characters, but Our Savior is a euphemism for drug supplier, and City Center is still active, and the ‘couple favors’ is probably a prostitution reference.
Girls Like Status
Her tryin to start a revolution is most likely Holly, as referenced in Sketchy Metal. Charlemagne might be ‘he,’ which would also make him the narrator in Your Little Hoodrat Friend.
Banging Camp
The first verse is Holly reminiscing about Charlemagne, while the second is her and Mary (sweet recovery) taking hard drugs for the first time. There’s an argument to be made for Gideon being the one breaking bread and giving thanks, but I kind of doubt it. Also, the first appearance of the Party Pit.
Your Little Hoodrat Friend
The religious imagery makes it pretty clear that Holly is the hoodrat. Holly at this point is into hard drugs (why else the need to rise again?) but not yet into prostitution (I’m not gonna do anything sexual with you). I may be naively taking the lyrics at face value but I’m gonna go with it. The bit about true love washing up on the river is likely a reference to her split with Charlemagne at the end of Almost Killed Me. It’s possible Charlemagne is the narrator, as referenced in Girls Like Status, which would make the bit about her getting him high further in the past than it comes off. I’m not sure though, they probably slept together and ‘I’m not gonna do anything sexual with you’ doesn’t mesh with that.
Hornets! Hornets!
This is one of Holly’s first attempts at prostitution (I’ve never really done that much of this/I have to concentrate when we kiss).
Sketchy Metal
Another Almost Killed Me scene song. ‘Last winter’ would be the same as in Charlemagne and Sweatpants.
Charlemagne in Sweatpants
The first verse is about Charlemagne’s life while Holly is living out her death and resurrection, the second is Holly doing just that. I’m taking ‘you’re damn right we danced’ to be a prostitution reference, and the weather last winter is Holly leaving Charlemagne for Gideon as well as his near-death experience. I’m not quite sure who left defeated and depressed and returned ripping high, I want to say it’s Holly and her patron but it sounds a too epic for that to be it.
Hot Soft Light
Gideon getting busted (‘cutting off all my hair’ is the clue). We can assume he’s lying about being clean, but the drugs have already gone from recreational to medical.
212-Margarita
I originally had this as sort of an epilogue, but I changed my mind when Holly wiped at her nose and she winked – she still has a secret, she hasn’t given up Charlemagne yet. This is Mary and Holly taking care of each other. I’m pretty sure the parts about being sick are about drug side effects, suggesting Mary did indeed join Holly in Banging Camp. The raunchy magazine launch is another reference to Holly’s adventures in California, and Mary is her ‘only sure shot at recovery,’ referenced in Banging Camp.
Chips Ahoy!
Charlemagne gets close with a precognitive girl (Sapphire) before the events of Stay Positive.
Don’t Let Me Explode
Holly and Gideon are planning their next move. Gideon asks about Charlemagne, and Holly lets on that she knows, the betrayal that leads to the events of Stay Positive.
Chicago Seemed Tired Last Night
Judas went up and kissed him.
Both Crosses
Sapphire sees Charlemagne get killed by Gideon.
Yeah Sapphire
Immediately after Both Crosses, Charlemagne is cut but alive. This is the girl from Chips Ahoy!, her precognition saved him.
Cheyenne Sunrise
The reunion of Charlemagne and Sapphire immediately following Yeah Sapphire.
One for the Cutters
A college girl witnesses the events of Both Crosses and has her own personal fallout.
Sequestered in Memphis
After Both Crosses, the police try to figure out what happened. It’s unclear is the narrator is a main character, I think probably not.
Multitude of Casualties
The end of Holly’s and Gideon’s relationship. ‘Getting with her little hoodrat friend’ is used in a very different context from the earlier song, and combined with the casualties and the eulogy make me think it’s a euphemism for violence, particularly the encounter with Charlemagne described in Stay Positive.
Same Kooks
It’s hard to slow down when you’re picking up speed. I’m putting this here because the couplet about the Mississippi River makes me think Both Crosses happened already. The photo shoot thing is probably about the events of Curves and Nerves, making the narrator Gideon and ‘She’ Holly.
Cattle and the Creeping Things
Holly talking about religion and about the past with a stranger. ‘Hard drugs are for bartenders’ is an admonishment now, rather than a statement of fact. She and Gideon are split, and I’m pretty sure the pictures are referring to the porn she made in Curves and Nerves. The lines about Cain and Abel (and ‘murder is for murderers’) refer to Charlemagne’s second near-death experience, this time at the hands of Gideon.
First Night
It sounds like the three main characters are separated at this point, and I think the start of Holly trying to get clean.
Lord, I’m Discouraged
A friend, probably not a main character, witnesses Holly hit bottom after the events of Stay Positive.
Party Pit
Epilogue material, Holly reflecting on all those things she did with just momentum from the party pit. I’m putting it here, as Holly starting to be able to put the past behind her, rather than at the end mostly just because Resurrection or Slapped Actress should be the end. For those making a playlist out of this, your welcome.
Joke About Jamaica
A look at the scene in the aftermath of Stay Positive.
Ask Her for Adderall
Charlemagne’s epilogue shortly after Stay Positive
Stevie Nix
Holly’s gotten high for the first and last time, she’s come to in a confession, so this has to be setting up to Crucifixion Cruise. 33 is the age Jesus died, as well as the age Finn was when the album was released, so choose your favorite meaning.
Crucifixion Cruise
The setup to How a Resurrection Really Feels. This song didn’t make much sense to me until I considered it could be set after Stay Positive, because whatever Holly is, she’s not a murderer. She’s reflecting on her Not Sweet Friend Gideon and his attack on Charlemagne (the Old Connection).
How a Resurrection Really Feels
Today she finally came back.
Slapped Actress
Charlemagne’s own personal Resurrection. At the end because of the meta stuff, but could go before Stevie Nix as easily.
