bigontheinside
Midnight Hauler
If you don't know the words, don't sing along
Posts: 1,478
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Post by bigontheinside on Jan 9, 2009 16:40:44 GMT -5
OK, so this may seem like a stupid question - maybe not - but what exactly happens in Seperation Sunday? Craig has reffered to it as a pretty linear story but I still can't figure it out. Any help?
Cheers
JABLES
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Post by gushingblood on Jan 9, 2009 16:43:41 GMT -5
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bigontheinside
Midnight Hauler
If you don't know the words, don't sing along
Posts: 1,478
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Post by bigontheinside on Jan 9, 2009 16:51:43 GMT -5
thanks. Somehow forgot to check the wiki.
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Post by Nightclub Dwight on Jan 10, 2009 1:12:37 GMT -5
Don't want to give it all away, but they hit an iceberg, the boat sinks, and everyone dies.
Its a great album though.
Night C. Dwight
#44
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Post by penetrationpark on Jan 11, 2009 20:00:00 GMT -5
sapphire makes it out okay. but she isn't really in separation sunday.
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Post by kim on Jan 11, 2009 20:04:37 GMT -5
Don't want to give it all away, but they hit an iceberg, the boat sinks, and everyone dies. Its a great album though. Night C. Dwight #44 I still haven't seen Titanic, mostly because I already knew what happened. |
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Post by Rich Tarbell on Jan 11, 2009 21:11:10 GMT -5
what happens in separation sunday stays in separation sunday.
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Post by dot info on Jan 12, 2009 6:16:36 GMT -5
Charlemagne was a ghost all along!
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Post by campfirewood1980 on Jan 13, 2009 17:41:58 GMT -5
sapphire makes it out okay. but she isn't really in separation sunday. Think she might be the little hoodrat friend- especially the one mentioned in "Multitude of Casualties"? |
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Post by penetrationpark on Jan 13, 2009 21:06:19 GMT -5
Holly is definitely the hoodrat, HARRF is pretty clear on that. I've always thought Multitude of Casualties was about Holly, but it could very well be Sapphire. It kind of depends on what Craig means by "the citadel", if it's a church I'm pretty sure that'd be Holly... if not it's probably Sapphire. I cant believe I haven't thought of that yet, Sapphire's by far my favorite THS character.
A good chunk of songs on Stay Positive are about Sapphire (Both Crosses, One for the Cutters, Yeah Sapphire, Magazines) and so is Chips Ahoy.
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Post by hoodrat on Jan 13, 2009 21:08:47 GMT -5
i believe one theory is that sapphire = holly
and there is definitely more than one hoodrat
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Post by penetrationpark on Jan 13, 2009 21:19:04 GMT -5
I have almost zero clue how that one works.
This has probably been discussed ad nauseam already.
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Post by hoodrat on Jan 13, 2009 21:50:11 GMT -5
I have almost zero clue how that one works. This has probably been discussed ad nauseam already. hmm, well, i have no particular investment in this reading. and i've told myself these stories a lot of different ways. and, i tend to think the stories are better if i see less cross-pollination between the albums. but there are at least character similarities. however, sapphire's main identifier is that she has religious visions, or fakes them. also, she's tied up in some betrayal of one of the townie boys in the stay positive songs. (i don't think there's any way magazines is about holly or sapphire fwiw; druggy catholic chick from the suburbs doesn't match with the benefits and the building dedications, magazines and daddy issues chick; that's a new woman) holly has visions. st theresa comes to her (in chicago seemed tired). in multitude, they go on a vision quest but don't find anything. but in stevie nix, someone (presumably holly, i think) gets screwed up by her vision. and we know holly is tied up in some betrayal or another, probably charlemagne's. if betrayal is a character trait, they're certainly both neck-deep in it. so, at least, both characters are some druggy catholic girls who have visions and are mixed up in some bloody business where the fellow gets sold out. another reading is that sapphire is holly's little hoodrat friend, or vice versa. they can both be hoodrats. indeed "he" was getting with holly's little hoodrat friend when she got born again in multitude. (i don't like either reading of little hoodrat friend; i got another theory). |
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Post by missalabamanobody on Jan 13, 2009 22:13:52 GMT -5
I have almost zero clue how that one works. This has probably been discussed ad nauseam already. however, sapphire's main identifier is that she has religious visions, or fakes them. also, she's tied up in some betrayal of one of the townie boys in the stay positive songs. (i don't think there's any way magazines is about holly or sapphire fwiw; druggy catholic chick from the suburbs doesn't match with the benefits and the building dedications, magazines and daddy issues chick; that's a new woman) Plus the Magazines woman is in New York, and I think the You Can Make Him Like You chick is as well; who has a driver in Minneapolis? [quote} (i don't like either reading of little hoodrat friend; i got another theory). [/quote] I'd like to hear that. |
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Post by hoodrat on Jan 13, 2009 22:22:21 GMT -5
hmmm, well this is not my original theory. some folks on this board met my friend who introduced me to THS; after much nagging, he registered on the old board as Wasp With New Wings, but almost never posted. so, all credit to him for the theory. but i think it's a prayer, albeit a defiant, guilty prayer. the speaker (probably the overarching narrator) is addressing jesus. holly is christ's little hoodrat friend. listen again. it works with the words. it works with the music. |
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Post by missalabamanobody on Jan 13, 2009 22:37:54 GMT -5
Well, I don't believe him for a minute that he hasn't been with her, either. So it's a guilty, LYING prayer, too.
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Post by penetrationpark on Jan 13, 2009 23:07:51 GMT -5
however, sapphire's main identifier is that she has religious visions, or fakes them. also, she's tied up in some betrayal of one of the townie boys in the stay positive songs. (i don't think there's any way magazines is about holly or sapphire fwiw; druggy catholic chick from the suburbs doesn't match with the benefits and the building dedications, magazines and daddy issues chick; that's a new woman) There's only one place where every building is dedicated to somebody: college. OftC is obviously about a college student so I'm pretty sure OftC girl = Magazines girl. Would that make both Holly and Charlemagne Judas? I dont think Charlemagne is gay (in Chicago... it specifically says "when Judas went up and kissed him.). Even if Craig doesnt literally mean kissed the "I guess I knew it was coming" is a pretty obvious reference to Charlemagne getting stabbed. I'm pretty sure "him" is Charlemagne, so whoever led directly to Charlemagne's death is probably that Judas. My bets are on Holly there. |
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Post by hoodrat on Jan 13, 2009 23:24:42 GMT -5
There's only one place where every building is dedicated to somebody: college. OftC is obviously about a college student so I'm pretty sure OftC girl = Magazines girl. not the only place! i'm pretty sure this is just generic description of city events that rich daddy's girls in the city go to from the time they're 6. museums, galleries, memorials, government buildings, parks, anything with public funding, get dedications. big-ticket society events, like benefits. besides, the college explanation doesn't seem to work. actual college students don't go to the building dedications, do they? just wealthy alumni? i'm not sure what you mean. who do you think is christ in your reading of the story/metaphor? the moment where judas kissed christ is not particularly homosexual (and is one of the more pregnant, powerful moments in all of literature). i actually tend to think that holly is judas and charlemagne is christ in this narrative. holly's christ visions just foreshadow her own betrayal of the guy she used to think was her savior. Edited lots, for clarity |
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Post by hoodrat on Jan 13, 2009 23:33:21 GMT -5
Well, I don't believe him for a minute that he hasn't been with her, either. So it's a guilty, LYING prayer, too. agreed, most likely. he might not have yet at the time of the prayer, but it was on his mind . . . |
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Post by penetrationpark on Jan 13, 2009 23:58:37 GMT -5
i actually tend to think that holly is judas and charlemagne is christ in this narrative. holly's christ visions just foreshadow her own betrayal of the guy she used to think was her savior. Exactly. Students dont really go to the dedications but you know how she got when there weren't any parties... |
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Post by missalabamanobody on Jan 14, 2009 0:17:37 GMT -5
I think the Magazines chick is older than college. She's the late 20's-early 30s version. That's why she's going to the benefits and building dedications. She's a business babe.
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toastie
Sniffling Indie Kid
Posts: 159
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Post by toastie on Jan 14, 2009 8:27:19 GMT -5
I think the Magazines chick is older than college. She's the late 20's-early 30s version. That's why she's going to the benefits and building dedications. She's a business babe. The Two Handed Handshake defo late 20's, early 30's:"Your making up your mind about the drinks after work/ It's such a gossipy office." |
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Post by superfan99 on Jan 14, 2009 9:05:11 GMT -5
The dog dies.
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Post by gushingblood on Jan 14, 2009 12:42:17 GMT -5
The bad guy was Holly's father all along
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roye
Cityscape Skin
Posts: 36
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Post by roye on Jan 14, 2009 15:32:02 GMT -5
I think the Magazines chick is older than college. She's the late 20's-early 30s version. That's why she's going to the benefits and building dedications. She's a business babe. The Two Handed Handshake defo late 20's, early 30's:"Your making up your mind about the drinks after work/ It's such a gossipy office." I could be mistaken, but I vaguely remember before SP came out there were some previews online with short explanations of the songs. Craig said that Magazines is about a friend (band member) and his woman. So I would take it that this one kind of stands alone, i.e. no references to Holly etc. Though, I could be wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time. |
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