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Post by jwd on Feb 19, 2009 15:53:14 GMT -5
See, this is what happens when THS is off the road for a while. Can we get some positivity flowing up in this mutherf****r? To paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson in "Do The Right Thing": CHILL THE FUCK OUT!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2009 17:39:23 GMT -5
deals with themes in a way that I feel is offensive (Jamaica) I still can't wrap my head around your issue with this song. It's definitely not flattering, but, like almost every THS song, it's a character study, and as sad as it is, there are girls out there who are down on their luck and desperate for attention, and men who are more than willing to take advantage of them. It's not condoning or condemning any pattern of behavior, on the men or woman's part, it's just presenting a sad situation. I don't see how this song is any more offensive than a line like, say "She went down like a chicken strip, dripping wet with the special sauce, she had a confidence smile and a nervous cough, and we got off!" wow... i didn't realize how dirty that line was until now and honestly people need to be able to critisize their idols. i love THS but part of loving something is aknowledging its faults. yes, Craig does tend to repeat alot of his lyrical structures. yes, to the unitiated they do sound like just another classic rock band. etc they haven't really made a move i disagree with but there is definatly room for debate i mean people showing up to troll the board and tell people THS suck is one thing but that hasn't happened yet! and everything i've seen is pretty mild. after the 3rd Architecture in Helsinki album i went on their MySpace and basically accused them of betrying me... and i've met the band
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Post by profpicklez on Feb 19, 2009 17:52:26 GMT -5
Rule #1 A bruvva's gotta eat. Rule#2 Revolutions aren't meant to stay underground Rule#3 Don't ever sleep on THS
Realize that they might..... just might be playing these shows to give those CC & DMB audiences a sonic enema whilst picking those DMB pockets clean.
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Post by blackbeard on Feb 19, 2009 19:38:11 GMT -5
after the 3rd Architecture in Helsinki album i went on their MySpace and basically accused them of betrying me... and i've met the band Holy shit, that record sucked. Ugh. In Case We Die forever!!!
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Post by hoodrat on Feb 19, 2009 19:51:09 GMT -5
i was going to post something substantive here, but every attempt at a draft turned into a slightly pissy epistle. i do think everyone can have an opinion and express it politely. so can i.
so . . . what jwd said.
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Post by Matt Jones on Feb 19, 2009 19:57:04 GMT -5
So, all of that coupled with the band caving to the shiny new fancy record company wanting them to play with a band they do not like (and, as I've said elsewhere on the boards, court people who hate me), I'm beginning to feel like these guys really aren't for me. Just saying here...but that makes no sense. You really think Vagrant is gonna say: "Hey, go on tour with this band that ISN'T on our label so you can promote that band!" No. If Vagrant was having a foothold in it, they'd say "hey, go tour with Dashboard Confessional, so we can sell double the records!" If you don't like the music that's one thing, but I really don't think you have any right to question shit that you don't know the answer to. You don't know what the record label is saying, you don't know what the guys are thinking, so why build up all this shit about it? These guys have families/girlfriends/kids/ect. They need to support them. Headlining clubs isn't exactly a comfortable living, and I'm sure that this mini-tour opening for DMB is giving pretty good bank. If you don't like it DON'T GO. But everyone should really just shut the fuck up about it. It's a band we're fans of, opening for a band we (pretty much all) don't like, but it's a solid career move. It's like saying that Chuck Klostermann is a sell-out because he moved from that North Dakota paper to Spin. He made a positive career move. There's no reason for you to bitch about it. No how about we all shut the hell up about this whole thing, and continue being fucking PUMPED for the late march / april tour. See you in front of the stage in Albany, everyone. -Matt.
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Post by Elwoodii on Feb 19, 2009 20:08:29 GMT -5
I remember a debate regarding the mixing/mastering of Stay Positive, which also - from my point of view - got completely out of hand. Interesting. One of the first things I though when I heard SP was that I didn't really like the way it was mastered. Nice to know other people noticed the same thing. Things like that are enormously subjective though (well, maybe not enormously).
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Post by pubmonkey on Feb 19, 2009 20:21:55 GMT -5
The boys had a good run, the last album wasn't bad but not as good as the previous three and let's face it kids, shit changes, Jonesie makes the valid point that these shows are most likely paying big cash and the boys should be allowed to get their hands on some folding money, that said you love em for what they mean to you, that's why i prefer not to meet the bands i like cuz ultimately they let you down in person or they do shit like this and one feels personally betrayed, but really it ain't neither, it's called life and there's nothing wrong with trying to find a bigger audience, will the DMB crowd be filled with gigantic douchebags, well i'd say bet the fucking house on that but so what, someday when we're old and some of us our even older we'll reminesce about when we saw them in tiny clubs, (and took over the stage:check my youtube performcance) i remember seeing Wilco in little dives and now Tweedy publishes poetry and acts like a pompous ass most of the time, saw the White Stripes at the 31st Pub which holds maybe 200, i still dig the music but i wouldn't go and see them i a large venue, it happens, very few of us are lucky enough for our heroes to remain relevant, hence my lifelong love of Mozzer but so be it, bands fall apart, relationships fall apart, some things get harder and other things stay soft whatcha gonna do. And Whiskey baby let me know when you and NCD want to grab some beers and listen to some jukebox music, sounds like you could use a good night out with the oldtimers. King Monkey.
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Sunny D
Midnight Hauler
"We've gotta try a little harder..."
Posts: 1,900
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Post by Sunny D on Feb 19, 2009 20:43:49 GMT -5
I don't get the big deal with the DMB thing.
I mean, does it make the music sound worse?
Doubtful.
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 19, 2009 21:10:27 GMT -5
Man..can we just get back to liking the fucking music? If you dont like the music , just shut the shit off and go about your business. I wound up analyzing Springsteen so much I stopped liking the shit. That aint gonna happen again. I just wanna hear some heavy riffs and cool lyrics. Fuck this being part of something bigger thing. I love me some Hold Steady music.Thats it, thats enough.
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Post by rodcarew on Feb 19, 2009 21:15:21 GMT -5
No I don't think the music sounds worse either, but I suppose I can understand the disappointment for people about what the experience would be if there is no general admission and people are just waiting for Dave to come out. But I also understand that this could be about payin the bills or getting more exposure.
Otherwise reading all these posts on both threads has been exhausting but perhaps has led to the interesting type of discussion some members have been looking for. The questions about what bands mean to us and why, and for how long they can be relevant, meaningful or remain what we want them to be. And to be able to actively to discuss it is kinda cool, even though I know I don't have the energy for it.
Stay Posi everybody!
Actually nevermind - what Bible Salesman said
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Post by blackbeard on Feb 19, 2009 21:52:28 GMT -5
I don't get the big deal with the DMB thing. I mean, does it make the music sound worse? Doubtful. It all depends on which amps they're using. Probably the kind that shit on you, but that's just a guess. If they are the shitting kind, then the music may not necessarily sound worse, but it'll smell pretty bad.
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bret
Cityscape Skin
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Post by bret on Feb 19, 2009 23:15:39 GMT -5
Its music you love. Don't let the boys get tainted by what they do to make a living - its six dates for christ sake. I don't know about you all, but my family, and their well being is what matters most to me. Thats where these guys are at. Go try making a living doing what these guys do - it aint easy - if you think they are getting ready to do a show for Cribs you are horribly mistaken.
To the folks who are are getting all upset about the 2 weeks THS are on the road with DMB, get over it and congratulate them. Its great exposure and its good for the band. What would you do - you can't answer because you've never been in the position. Now turn up Stevie Nix and forget the conversation, move on to something more constructive, like jamming to Stevie Nix.
Bret
JWD & BibleSalesman said it better than me. I tried.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2009 23:42:03 GMT -5
after the 3rd Architecture in Helsinki album i went on their MySpace and basically accused them of betrying me... and i've met the band Holy shit, that record sucked. Ugh. In Case We Die forever!!! yeah i saw them play right before THS at Laneway... when i first got into the bands i liked them both equally (with insane love) i tried to get into it but the magic wasn't there. Do The Whirlwind was still good tho, and i don't mind the new single
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2009 23:44:42 GMT -5
The boys had a good run, the last album wasn't bad but not as good as the previous three and let's face it kids, shit changes, Jonesie makes the valid point that these shows are most likely paying big cash and the boys should be allowed to get their hands on some folding money, that said you love em for what they mean to you, that's why i prefer not to meet the bands i like cuz ultimately they let you down in person or they do shit like this and one feels personally betrayed, but really it ain't neither, it's called life and there's nothing wrong with trying to find a bigger audience, will the DMB crowd be filled with gigantic douchebags, well i'd say bet the fucking house on that but so what, someday when we're old and some of us our even older we'll reminesce about when we saw them in tiny clubs, (and took over the stage:check my youtube performcance) i remember seeing Wilco in little dives and now Tweedy publishes poetry and acts like a pompous ass most of the time, saw the White Stripes at the 31st Pub which holds maybe 200, i still dig the music but i wouldn't go and see them i a large venue, it happens, very few of us are lucky enough for our heroes to remain relevant, hence my lifelong love of Mozzer but so be it, bands fall apart, relationships fall apart, some things get harder and other things stay soft whatcha gonna do. And Whiskey baby let me know when you and NCD want to grab some beers and listen to some jukebox music, sounds like you could use a good night out with the oldtimers. King Monkey. i saw the White Stripes at a giant arena and loved it saw Leonard Cohen in a souless corporate entertainment centre and had tears in my eyes. i wasn't the only one bigger audience = shittier venues but if the band is good the band is good any aussies going through this with Drones/Augie March now? tho Augie March did get douchebag crowds when they moved up to the Metro fuck it. we can rib the band about this but yeah good on them
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john
Cityscape Skin
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Post by john on Feb 20, 2009 0:01:31 GMT -5
Alright... so that's settled.
Now back to WD's comment...
Genuinely curious... I really wanna know what is so offensive about Joke about Jamaica.
Fuck this DMB nonsense.... THAT'S the conversation I wanna see happen (or "happened"? Someone point me in the right direction if I missed it.)
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Post by dissident on Feb 20, 2009 1:02:07 GMT -5
seriously why the hate for dmb? shitty fanbase, great group of musicians who clearly love the hold steady enough to invite them to open for them. why wouldn't they accept?
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Post by muzzleofbees on Feb 20, 2009 3:58:16 GMT -5
I remember a debate regarding the mixing/mastering of Stay Positive, which also - from my point of view - got completely out of hand. Interesting. One of the first things I though when I heard SP was that I didn't really like the way it was mastered. Nice to know other people noticed the same thing. Things like that are enormously subjective though (well, maybe not enormously). I hadn't any strong opnions about the mastering, but I thought the discussion was really interesting. It came at a time where 80% of the posts here were of the kind "I just realized Navy Sheets IS awesome!" or "I head THS on the radio! How cool is THAT?". Nothing wrong with that, after all this is a board for the people in the world who cares most about the band. But when I really started to like the board, was when the critical discussions arised. People disagreed. Not so much on the subject whether the mastering was good or not, but if it was suiting or ok to post the critique on the board, since John Agnello is a member of the board, and had written something about the mastering, and why it was as it was (or something like that). I was kind of shocked to see not only the regulars here, but also the moderators, desperately tried to make the critics shut up. I realize it has something to do with the tone and manner things were presented in, but compared to any other message board on the entire internet, the tone was gentle and fair. Anyway, I entered the discussion, and said something about how interesting this board would be if everything we do is tell each other how much we love this band, and how awesome we are for doing it. That resulted in a quite lengthy PM from one of the moderatoris, basically saying that I didn't understand the structure or nature or something about the board. After some messages back and forth, I think we reached an agreement, but I still think the way to react says something about in what degree it's acceptable to criticize anything at all at this board. I accept and respect that people have hanged around this board much longer than me, and that some social codes have been established. But I would (again) warn against this becoming a private club where the only thing that is accepted is wholeheartedly love and affection for the band and the music they create. After all, the one thing that unites us here is the love for the band - that's implicit. With that as a starting point, there must be allowed to be critical and to ask questions. And, again: This is on a general basis. I still haven't read the whole DMB thread. And I do not defend rude behaviour, or anything. I just think there should be room for disagreements.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Feb 20, 2009 4:02:25 GMT -5
Is there unanimous agreement on what Joke About Jamaica is about? I've never looked closer into it. Is she a prostitute, or just a groupie? And exactly what is so offensive about it?
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aimee
Sniffling Indie Kid
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Post by aimee on Feb 20, 2009 7:15:01 GMT -5
remember when... there wasnt a messageboard. and then there was one. and it was PINK. and there werent shirts, but youd make friends anyway. and we'd get random, weird, off topic myspace bulletins. and i didnt know any of you people, and now i do and we still talk and hang out even when the hold steady is no where to be seen.
thats cool. i like that. so if you're bummed, just pop in SS or AKM and if you're still bummed then drag yourself to a show and LOSE YOUR MIND when they play the swish or milkcrate mosh...cuz you know, they still do that...sometimes.
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Post by motörben on Feb 20, 2009 7:24:07 GMT -5
remember when... there wasnt a messageboard. and then there was one. and it was PINK. and there werent shirts, but youd make friends anyway. and we'd get random, weird, off topic myspace bulletins. and i didnt know any of you people, and now i do and we still talk and hang out even when the hold steady is no where to be seen. thats cool. i like that. so if you're bummed, just pop in SS or AKM and if you're still bummed then drag yourself to a show and LOSE YOUR MIND when they play the swish or milkcrate mosh...cuz you know, they still do that...sometimes. X 2 This is weak, I wish somebody would lock this thread now.
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Post by pubmonkey on Feb 20, 2009 7:57:54 GMT -5
The boys had a good run, the last album wasn't bad but not as good as the previous three and let's face it kids, shit changes, Jonesie makes the valid point that these shows are most likely paying big cash and the boys should be allowed to get their hands on some folding money, that said you love em for what they mean to you, that's why i prefer not to meet the bands i like cuz ultimately they let you down in person or they do shit like this and one feels personally betrayed, but really it ain't neither, it's called life and there's nothing wrong with trying to find a bigger audience, will the DMB crowd be filled with gigantic douchebags, well i'd say bet the fucking house on that but so what, someday when we're old and some of us our even older we'll reminesce about when we saw them in tiny clubs, (and took over the stage:check my youtube performcance) i remember seeing Wilco in little dives and now Tweedy publishes poetry and acts like a pompous ass most of the time, saw the White Stripes at the 31st Pub which holds maybe 200, i still dig the music but i wouldn't go and see them i a large venue, it happens, very few of us are lucky enough for our heroes to remain relevant, hence my lifelong love of Mozzer but so be it, bands fall apart, relationships fall apart, some things get harder and other things stay soft whatcha gonna do. And Whiskey baby let me know when you and NCD want to grab some beers and listen to some jukebox music, sounds like you could use a good night out with the oldtimers. King Monkey. i saw the White Stripes at a giant arena and loved it saw Leonard Cohen in a souless corporate entertainment centre and had tears in my eyes. i wasn't the only one bigger audience = shittier venues but if the band is good the band is good any aussies going through this with Drones/Augie March now? tho Augie March did get douchebag crowds when they moved up to the Metro fuck it. we can rib the band about this but yeah good on them I get what you're saying thereTlon, i've seen some great shows in large venues, David Bowie and U2 on the Joshua Tree tour and Morrissey come to mind, it's just i like the little joints, maybe it's more intimate or whatever, it is what you make of it jiguess, i just like the intensity you get at smaller shows.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Feb 20, 2009 8:15:11 GMT -5
This is weak, I wish somebody would lock this thread now. Why? Seriously, why would you want this thread dead?
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Post by mike on Feb 20, 2009 8:24:14 GMT -5
This is weak, I wish somebody would lock this thread now. Why? Seriously, why would you want this thread dead? my guess would be that it has something to do with the fact that there are people dissing his favourite band, who also happen to be his friends, on their own message board. i personally think this thread has been a long time coming, though, and i hope it means that in the future we'll be able to discuss hold steady records without having to filter out everything that might look like criticism. i'm certainly not going to be the guy to lock it. after all, in ben's words: "we're all considerate and polite and respectful of each other but for fuck's sake if people want to complain, let them. Locking threads because they get a bit negative is far out, dudes! Stop acting like babies."
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Post by motörben on Feb 20, 2009 8:39:53 GMT -5
Yup, I was juh-okin'. Plz no more thread locking.
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