Heaven is Whenever: "wrap-up" thread

[dealwiththedealers]

Before the arrival of LP #6, I think it'd be rad to give some final remarks on Heaven is Whenever since we've had almost 3 years to absorb the tracks and put the album/tour into proper perspective. I'll give my two cents about this whole recording cycle, including favorite and least favorite tracks from the album and the few shows I attended. This would be a fun way to wrap up this phase of the band before we get hit with the new record. Feel free to follow my format...


Favorite tracks: The Sweet Part of City, The Weekenders, Barely Breathing, A Slight Discomfort

Least favorite tracks: Soft In The Center

Overall thoughts: It's interesting to recall THS's place amidst the musical landscape when HiW came out. Between the resounding success of Stay Positive, Franz's departure, and a big promo push for the album (Colbert, Letterman, April 2010 tour, etc), it can be argued that the spotlight had never shined brighter on the band than it did on record release day.

My overall opinions on the record haven't changed very much from three years ago to today - loved it then, love it now. I think the majority of songs (except Soft in the Center) hold up just fine against the rest of the band's catalogue. Craig took a huge step forward on this record as a singer, mixing truly good melodies (e.g. The Weekenders, Hurricane J, Our Whole Lives) with old school rants (Barely Breathing). I was also impressed with Tad's writing - his additional piano and guitar parts on the last 3 tracks in particular add alot to the texture of the tunes (think: choruses to Our Whole Lives and A Slight Discomfort). Craig's lyrics, as always, were top-notch, and I think he did his best job ever of matching words with the moods of Tad's musical composition (The Weekenders and A Slight Discomfort are great examples of this).

HOWEVER... in my opinion the production on this record is extremely mediocre. The guitars sound compressed as hell and don't really leave a strong impact - for comparison, crank "Chicago Seems Tired Last Night" or "Magazines" vs. "Rock Problems" or "Our Whole Lives" and immediately realize the difference. I also can't help but lament the omission of "Ascension Blues" - I think it's way better than SITC and would have been a perfect thematic fit for the record. In general the record just sounds sort of "rushed" or "B-grade" in terms of sonic quality; a far cry from the rich and fulfilling soundscape of Sep Sunday, Boys and Girls, and Stay Positive.

Shows attended:
4 May 2010 - Belly Up Tavern, Solana Beach CA
27 Aug 2010 - Velvet Jones, Santa Barbara CA (this one takes the cake)
13 Nov 2010 - 4th & B, San Diego CA
15 Oct 2011 - Echoplex, Los Angeles CA
17 Dec 2011 - Brooklyn Night Bazaar, Brooklyn NY
31 Dec 2012 - Wellmont Theatre, Montclair NJ

[doctoracula]

i still listen to this record a LOT. i really like every song on it. the production could be better, but i don't hate it. it ends on the best down note, a rarity for them.

i saw them in philly in april 2010, at a free promo event. then a proper show in philly in october, and another in delaware a few days later.

[bmegroove]

When I think of this album I think of it more as SONGS, but not an album, if that makes sense.
When a song from the previous albums comes on I think BOYS AND GIRLS or ALMOST KILLED ME or whatever, but when these songs come I think of just the song itself.
I love them all so very much but overall the album doesn't have the spark of cohesion that the others did.
This is all a very nit-pick-y way of saying I STILL LOVE THE HELL OUT OF IT

Shows:
Apr 3 2010 - Toad's Place New Haven, CT
Apr 6 2010 - Pearl St, Northampton, MA
Oct 6 2010 - Royale, Boston, MA

[saintjoe]

I think when any band releases a new album, the natural tendency is to compare it to the band's previous work. Over time, however, you can think about that album on its own, understanding that it was created in a particular point in time and in the band's development, and that it represents where the band was artistically at that point in time.

Which is to say that, when HIW came out, it was easy to say that it is good, but not as good as Separation Sunday, BAGIA or Stay Positive. A few years later, though, I can listen to it and think what a great album it is, different than the band's previous work but great in its own right.

Love the last 3 songs (Barely Breathing, Our Whole Lives, A Slight Discomfort). The "weakest links" for me are Soft in the Center and Hurricane J (although I seem to be in the minority on that last one).

[dealwiththedealers]

Feb 8, 2013 11:04:12 GMT -5 saintjoe said:

I think when any band releases a new album, the natural tendency is to compare it to the band's previous work. Over time, however, you can think about that album on its own, understanding that it was created in a particular point in time and in the band's development, and that it represents where the band was artistically at that point in time.

Great way of putting it...

[iterate]

Feb 8, 2013 11:04:12 GMT -5 saintjoe said:

I think when any band releases a new album, the natural tendency is to compare it to the band's previous work. Over time, however, you can think about that album on its own, understanding that it was created in a particular point in time and in the band's development, and that it represents where the band was artistically at that point in time.

T.S. Eliot discusses this in terms of "the tradition" as a more general way to view a body of work (as expansive as "art" or "music," but also as narrow as a particular album or artist).

Colbert was my introduction to THS. HiW is very different for me than for most members of the board in this way. It was the inoffensive and, frankly, more pop-sensitive counterpart to their earlier albums. It enabled a sort of exploration and acclimation (and depth of appreciation) previously alien to me. While I can look at it and say "x, y, and z lines struck me off" or "the production was poor," the fact remains that this album has played a massive part in shaping my appreciation of music, as well as my career (Craig's lyrics inspired me to study literature and seek a PhD once I finish my undergraduate plan).

I recognize that this thread is directed more at "objective(ish)" criticism, but the emotional/commercial appeal of the album seems, to me, important.

[gettinincredible]

I like this album a lot more than I did after it first came out, which is to say it grew on me.

The Weekenders and Hurricane J remain among my favorite songs ever. I am not really a fan of Rock Problems (I especially wish they'd take it out of the live set...I can't even get excited during it), or Barely Breathing.

I don't mean to dump on it, I like it a lot, it's just been my least favorite so far. I saw them six times on this tour.

Summerfest, Milwaukee WI - July 1 2010
The Vic, Chicago IL - October 1 2010
Otto's, Dekalb IL - November 19 2010 (The best of the bunch)
The Riverside Theater, Milwaukee WI - December 31 2010 (Or maybe this one)
The Metro, Chicago IL - August 25 2011
Live On King Street, Madison WI - September 28 2012

I've really liked what I've heard of the new songs and I'm anxiously looking forward to the new album. I also saw Craig solo twice during that stretch, and I loved his solo record, more so than HIW overall.

[hollywasahoodrat]

it had a few gems. i think hurricane j and weekenders will be in the set for a while but it was tragically overproduced and had a couple throwaway songs as well, sweet part of the city and smidge can get axed anytime. hopefully this new record kind of sees a return to BAGIA and SP feel

[Eric]

Barely Breathing was on repeat for weeks after HiW came out, so I think that and Out Whole Lives have to be my favourite tracks. I remember being so excited for the release date, probably encouraged more so by the free stream that was floating around the net at the time.
Overall it's a great album but not my favourite by The Hold Steady. I think maybe that's because it was a pretty big change from the previous albums, even the artwork suggests that. I think they were going more mainstream, which I'm not saying is a bad thing at all but it did offer something fresh and different. The more upbeat rocky songs also make for amazing live experiences.

Shows attended, not that it matters,
Manchester, June 11?
Leeds, Feb 14.

PS! Perhaps Rock Problems should have been swapped for Touchless.

[bigontheinside]

Feb 21, 2013 12:29:48 GMT -5 Eric said:

PS! Perhaps Rock Problems should have been swapped for Ascension Blues.

[motörben]

I need to go back to HiW. I think I was suffering Hold Steady fatigue by the time it came out.

Hearing my absolute favourite lyricist sing "Living living living living living for The Smidge" breaks my heart every time, but "I said that I'll do anything but clean" kind of makes up for it. Our Whole Lives would probably be the only cut I'd put in my dream setlist.

I'm all for them trying new shit like slide guitars and echo-y backing vocals, even if it doesn't always work for me. I'd deffo join the crowd calling for a return to the urgency and honesty of the first two albums.

[doctoracula]

the Smidge has that faith/void lyric, which makes up for any of its other supposed shortcomings

[nowah]

I have a weird theory that The Smidge is a sequel to the Lifter Puller song Sublet, those two tracks being the only times Craig refers to anyone as proper noun Angel, despite its obvious place with the rest of the Catholic imagery. Those songs are also thematically similar in a way I can't quite put my finger on.

So I appreciate Smidge for that, but there's also the pretty direct I Like The Lights reference in Our Whole Lives, which is far and away the standout track on the record, and The Weekenders calls back to Chips Ahoy! almost as explicitly, and in that way Smidge is emblematic of the problems with Heaven is Whenever - it was a rushed job musically that should have been pushed back until someone like Steve could fill the void Franz left in the songs, and some of Craig's lyrics lack the density they deserve ("living living living living living for the smidge" being the worst offender). More attention to one or the other problem would have salvaged many of the songs into bona fide hits.

[doctoracula]

the "living living living" line isn't great, but the "used to want it all now we just want a little bit" is perfect and crushing

[dealwiththedealers]

In many ways, The Smidge is a great symbol of the fault I have with the entire record - a great concept and great hooks, marred by rushed production, mediocre execution and a lack of urgency. I still love the record but I'm glad the rest of yas are thinking the same general things.

Having said this... The Smidge does contain one of my favorite lines by Craig ever... "Now when we lie to each other, we do it through computers"... very timely and TRUE.

[gunner]

Our struggle stills feel wonderful most days. That line really hit home to me personally
I love this album

[iterate]

I really like the idea of The Smidge as a sequel to Sublet. It provides lots of context for the sort of love he's reconnected with through the internet. Usually the lack of context is a real boon to what he does (or, rather the subtlety of context), but in HiW it sort of reached maximum vagary in a somewhat frustrating way (now that I've explored the rest of their catalog, the album is slightly disappointing, for sure).

[delboydrums]

"Our struggle stills feel wonderful most days"

This line keeps me keeping on - very much in the way that "We are our only saviors" has done.

(which means I should probably get it tattooed)

[doctoracula]

"a slight discomfort" is such a perfect closer. it's darker than anything they've done before, and feels really cinematic, especially at the end.

[dealwiththedealers]

Feb 28, 2013 19:07:56 GMT -5 doctoracula said:

"a slight discomfort" is such a perfect closer. it's darker than anything they've done before, and feels really cinematic, especially at the end.

+1. Continues the string of epic THS album closers.

[stringer]

Feb 26, 2013 21:00:04 GMT -5 doctoracula said:

the "living living living" line isn't great, but the "used to want it all now we just want a little bit" is perfect and crushing

I love that line, too. And the timing runs perfectly with the riff, it's almost as if it's juxtaposed by the 'living living living' in terms of them being complete opposite ends of the 'good songwriting' spectrum.

None of this changes the fact that I'll still sing along like a loon. ;D

[st5801]

I actually don't see any problem with the "living, living..." line. Repetition works there with the timing of the song, in my opinion. The only two songs on the album that I don't really care for are Rock Problems and Hurricane J, but they're still tolerable.

Agree with the comment above that the songs feel more like one-offs than other albums. Its not quite as cohesive, but its hard to pinpoint exactly why.

I saw them twice since Heaven is Whenever was released. Both shows were very different, but very good. The first show had one of the more unique setlists I've seen them play, which was full of b-sides and rarities (Going on a Hike, Criminal Finger, Arms and Hearts) and the second show was more of a standard catalog of favorites.

[doctoracula]

i'd kill for a b-side heavy setlist

[muzzleofbees]

I agree with the "a record of SONGS" thought. To me, HiW is a great collection of songs, some of them on level with the previous ones. My favourites have always been Sweet Part Of The City, Rock Problems and Our Whole Lives. The Smidge is not all that good, and I've never been a big fan of Hurricane J (allthough the bridge is pretty amazing, and it works better live than on record).

As for A Slight Discomfort, I must say I like it, but I don't love it. It sort of have a Lifter Puller feel to me. Not in the sound or the song structure, but regarding how it makes me feel: A bit uncomfortable, a bit worried, scared but yet with a bittersweet feeling of melancholy. They have few musical things in common, but I get the same feelings when listening to Rock For Lite Brite or The Langelos. Lyrically, I also see a lot of Lifter Puller here. Especially all the Viceburgh references in Our Whole Lives is great fun.

Song by song I think it was just as good as Stay Positive. The highs were (aaaalmost) as high, but I think the worst parts of Stay Positive are worse than the bad songs on HiW. On everything in between it's pretty much the same: Great, but not super.

I'm a bit ambivalent to the production. Sometimes I think the record sound fresh, crisp and quite powerful, on the other hand it sometimes feels a bit slick and to compressed. I would like those guitars to sound more like, you know, guitars - not just texture. The same goes for the piano/keyboard parts. It sounds a bit generated, a bit too perfect. I would like to feel the room and the sounds more. But I also think it makes a nice supplement to the more guitar-guitar-y sounds of AKM or SS.

Living in Copenhagen when it was released, and in Norway for a couple of years now, I'm delighted to say I managed to see them three times since release.

Amsterdam, june 2010
London, june 2010
Oslo, august 2012

[giantladder]

I've felt the same about the production, it just never grabbed me. I'm pretty excited about the switch back to the brilliant John Agnello (BAGIA, SP, Dinosaur Jr., Kurt Vile). He's pretty excited about it too!