cre618
True Scene Leader
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Post by cre618 on Apr 20, 2010 22:44:17 GMT -5
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Post by shakerheights on Apr 20, 2010 23:06:03 GMT -5
What do you mean by "inevitable backlash?"
I think the guy hit the nail on the head- it isn't an "oh-my-god, Armageddon, the world is falling" awful album, but there's a couple decent tracks, a lot of mediocre material, and a couple total duds. It's clearly the 5th best album out of their 5 releases, which is less of a knock on HiW and more of a complement to their first 4 albums- I don't know if we'll see a 4 string classic album run to start a career like AKM/SS/B&G/SP any time soon. I think he has a great point- this sounds like a band in transition following Franz's departure, and I'm actually starting to wish they would have just toured this spring/summer without releasing HiW while writing new material with the new band set in mind and periodically releasing the quality songs (Weekenders, Barely Breathing) as singles (I know a lot of people won't agree with this, but a lot of the songs on this album just don't seem like album songs- I don't think a single song on this album would have been among the top 4-5 songs on any other THS release).
Obviously this is all my opinion and I respect everyone's right to talk about this album like it's unbelievable, but maybe adjust your views regarding these upcoming reviews- they're going to be pretty mixed/mediocre.
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Post by ontheradio on Apr 20, 2010 23:30:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I think people are making a bigger deal out of Franz leaving than should be made.
that's all I got. Who the fuck cares about critics? I don't plan on "adjusting my views" accordingly. Sorry!
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Post by doctoracula on Apr 20, 2010 23:30:53 GMT -5
i can see this record getting a lot of lukewarm reviews now and then showing up on some end of the year lists. i've only had it for a few days and i can already tell it's a huge grower of an album.
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Post by shakerheights on Apr 20, 2010 23:37:07 GMT -5
Who the fuck cares about critics? I don't plan on "adjusting my views" accordingly. Sorry! Sorry, I'm not saying to adjust your views regarding the album, that would be stupid- if you love it, you love it. I'm saying everyone expecting this to be as critically acclaimed as Separation Sunday and Boys and Girls in America, thinking every review will be *****, then they may be in for a little surprise. The guy at Rolling Stone seems to absolutely love the new songs, though, so I could be wrong. Who knows. I just wouldn't be surprised at all to see this one rated pretty mediocre, not that its that important.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
Posts: 714
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Post by cre618 on Apr 20, 2010 23:45:37 GMT -5
What do you mean by "inevitable backlash?" I think they've had such great reviews for the last four, that some backlash is inevitable. Personally, while I really enjoyed Stay Positive when it came out, I think this might be a better record. But, SP was very warmly received by critics, and I don't think HIW will get the same treatment. We'll see.....
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Post by barryjive on Apr 20, 2010 23:49:58 GMT -5
What do you mean by "inevitable backlash?" I think they've had such great reviews for the last four, that some backlash is inevitable. Personally, while I really enjoyed Stay Positive when it came out, I think this might be a better record. But, SP was very warmly received by critics, and I don't think HIW will get the same treatment. We'll see..... You could have said the same thing for each of the last three albums, then, in terms of backlash. And it never came, because those albums were stone cold killers and received as such. If you like the album, there's no reason to let critics bring you down, but I personally don't think the album is that great and it would surprise me if lots of critics disagreed. But that's just my opinion. Backlash doesn't usually come in the form of reviews, anyway, and it's more of an immediate reaction than something that develops over a five-album career. Anyone who's going to backlash already has. From here on out, I think you can take criticism at face value because everyone knows what they're getting from the Hold Steady.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
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Post by cre618 on Apr 21, 2010 0:29:42 GMT -5
If you like the album, there's no reason to let critics bring you down, but I personally don't think the album is that great and it would surprise me if lots of critics disagreed. But that's just my opinion.. Nah, critics won't bring me down, I'm just pretty interested this time around, since the album is a bit of a departure. I'll make up my own mind, and I'm waiting to see how I feel in 6 months.
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Post by spanishjohnny on Apr 21, 2010 0:42:34 GMT -5
I thought that Stereogum review was pretty consistent with my personal views of the album. It sounds like the worst THS album so far to me, and definitely the "least fun" out of any of them.
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Camie
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Post by Camie on Apr 21, 2010 1:12:21 GMT -5
If everyone listened to what reviews said about albums, there wouldn't be such diversity in music. Reviews are the opinion of the writer. Any single person can review an album, and I don't think that my tastes reflect on what a lot of critics think.
I am weird when it comes to albums.
I usually make an opinion right away... I ether love it or hate it. I give albums I hate listens later on, I usually end up loving them later. I don't have an instant opinion with this album. There are parts I like, and there are parts I am not so happy with, but the album as a whole, I have no opinion whatsoever about. It feels weird to me. I know it's not my favorite album of the 5. But I don't know where else to place it. This one is going to take some time, somewhat like a wine, it needs to breathe, and I think I am okay with that.
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Post by crimenotes on Apr 21, 2010 9:03:43 GMT -5
After only one listen of the album, I thought it was extremely strong. I thought of "Stay Positive" as a likable enough album but uneven and occasionally mawkish. HIW sounds like a return to form, and hits a lot of the strengths that got me into the band in the first place.
So, whatever. To each his (and her) own, I guess.
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Brian_NJ
Clever Kid
Who the hell is the blue guy?
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Post by Brian_NJ on Apr 21, 2010 9:24:59 GMT -5
I'm not sure when I'll feel qualified to pass judgment on the album as a whole. When Stay Pos came out I thought it was their best ever but that hasn't held up; there are three or four songs that I skip almost every time (despite at least three masterpieces).
I thought the "inevitable backlash" comment had to do with the idea that after their long-term critical acclaim to date, regardless of content it's probably going to start to be cool not to like THS. And there are those who will tire (or have already tired) of the incessant references to the same characters and concepts (my own brother jumped ship two years ago). While I'm not one of them, I can see how some people will hear this and say "enough already with Holly and her killer parties".
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 21, 2010 9:35:18 GMT -5
Let's guess!
Pitchfork: 6.8 Uncut: 4/5 Mojo: 3/5
I think it will recieve mixed reviews above average. And like most of you, I really don't care. Not because reviews are uninteresing. I think it's valuable to hear opnions on Hold Steady records from people who aren't as deep into them as we are. It gives perspective, and it tells us something about how the band is viewed outside the inner circle. But with a band this close to me, it sure won't affect my view on the record in any major degree.
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Post by 99rockproblems on Apr 21, 2010 9:56:35 GMT -5
I'm less interested in individual critics than I am interested in the overall reception of the album. For anybody that has never used metacritic before, it's a review aggregating site that averages out reviews by well-respected critics and pops out a metascore. Average albums get muddled in the 65-75, and usually any album above a 80 is a really great record. You almost never see scores of albums at or above 85 if the album has more than 15 reviews, but they pop up periodically (and THOSE albums are usually really special). www.metacritic.com/search/process?sort=relevance&termtype=all&ts=the+hold+steady&ty=2&button=searchSo, critical consensus at the time of each album's release was: AKM: 78 SS: 86 BAGIA: 85 SP: 85 APR: 77 The critics love these guys, and I don't see HiW getting anything less than a 78 once the reviews start pouring in. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it nearly matches their previous successes and gets an 83 or so.
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Post by howitfeels on Apr 21, 2010 12:37:26 GMT -5
Let's not get hasty, this is only Stereogum. Average to poor reviews from Pitchfork and the likes of Stereogum only means that the band are losing their hipster support, which isn't a bad thing at all. The backlash happens to great bands and it is inevitable. Fuck um if they can't see that this was better than SP.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
Posts: 714
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Post by cre618 on Apr 21, 2010 12:57:40 GMT -5
I thought the "inevitable backlash" comment had to do with the idea that after their long-term critical acclaim to date, regardless of content it's probably going to start to be cool not to like THS. And there are those who will tire (or have already tired) of the incessant references to the same characters and concepts (my own brother jumped ship two years ago). While I'm not one of them, I can see how some people will hear this and say "enough already with Holly and her killer parties". Thanks so much Brian. That's exactly what I meant.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
Posts: 714
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Post by cre618 on Apr 21, 2010 12:59:31 GMT -5
The critics love these guys, and I don't see HiW getting anything less than a 78 once the reviews start pouring in. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it nearly matches their previous successes and gets an 83 or so. My metacritic guess will be in the 65-70 range.
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Post by shakerheights on Apr 21, 2010 13:03:55 GMT -5
A question for those who have been around since the Stay Positive days-
I'm obviously relatively new to the forum (lurking since Jan/Feb), and was just wondering what the initial response was to that album around release time. I think a lot of people are letting the "newness" of HiW affect their thoughts on both HiW and SP, and are knocking down SP to try to avoid admitting that HiW is probably the weakest THS album. (To me, it's a lot like Bruce's "Working on a Dream"- at the time of its release some people were calling it his best album in 25 years, now its generally accepted to be one of his weakest works now that its no longer brand new.) Do others think this may be true, or am I overrating what people thought of SP is the first place? I think its a tremendous album from beginning to end, Constructive Summer is a killer opener, Sequestered is exactly what I want in a THS single, and a lot of tracks like Joke About Jamaica and Yeah, Sapphire just blend in on the album when I think they would have been standouts on HiW.
As for my guesses, I'd say Pitchfork gives the album something like a 6.5 and the album logs a low 70s (73?) rating on Metacritic.
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Post by bloodystereos on Apr 21, 2010 13:05:20 GMT -5
I have not had a chance to listen to the entire album yet. I will say that when I first heard Hurricane J on the radio , I was a little disappointed. Although I think it has grown on me. The other stuff I have heard both live and on radio from this album I have liked a little better. I am sure once I get a copy and listen to it a few times I will be diggin it. That being said each of their albums hold some jems and some clunkers at least for me. My girl likes AKM the best , I like SS or BAGIA depending on my mood. Most importantly I like THS and this is a THS album. I am sure I will not be let down and also sure that this band is nowhere near finished making incredible music. Screw the critics , they get paid to have an opinion and that makes them think that their opinion is some how important. Silly. Only I can decide what I like... duh ! My girlfriend was quickly converted to the flock after only a few listens to BAGIA. However she just hates what we call the "whoa - oh - oh - ohs" She says "why do they have to do that?" hehehe
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Camie
Midnight Hauler
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Camie on Apr 21, 2010 13:22:07 GMT -5
I happen to like the whoa-oh-oh-ohs at live shows... they are quite fun!
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Post by complicatedthings on Apr 21, 2010 13:27:27 GMT -5
i can see this record getting a lot of lukewarm reviews now and then showing up on some end of the year lists. i've only had it for a few days and i can already tell it's a huge grower of an album. Look, a reaction to art is always opinion, but when it comes to building a consensus on work by THS doctoracula nails it on the head: this band is not quickly accessible. The combination of complex lyrics (esp. allusions) and lack of pretty melodies makes THS a "grower" band. I am a massive THS fan and every damn time they release an album I fall victim to the initial reaction. Then, after about 15 listens, I am in love with the album and never look back. I know enough about music to write with confidence that this is a musically solid album. The lyrics are as strong as ever and even moving at times. Sure Craig is given to lyrics that can seem cheesy (you can't kiss every girl), but that's only because earnest lyrics are so "un-cool" in this era. Listen to Springsteen and you'll hear some cheesy lyrics... And for God's sake, please remember that this band has never tried to be "cool". I've known them since Lifter Puller and they're basically just normal guys. Their appeal to hipsters was always just a pleasant surprise for me. If those hipsters want to bail, well shorter beer lines at the shows, right? In a nutshell: those of us who are critical initially need to sit back, spin the disc and let THS do what they always do: get scratched into our souls.
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Post by 99rockproblems on Apr 21, 2010 13:54:20 GMT -5
The critics love these guys, and I don't see HiW getting anything less than a 78 once the reviews start pouring in. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it nearly matches their previous successes and gets an 83 or so. My metacritic guess will be in the 65-70 range. I'd be happy to take wagers on this one. Shall we bet a beer at the El Rey show (I presume you'll be there since you're from LA)? Seems like the most appropriate currency for us Hold Steady fans.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
Posts: 714
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Post by cre618 on Apr 21, 2010 14:40:05 GMT -5
My metacritic guess will be in the 65-70 range. I'd be happy to take wagers on this one. Shall we bet a beer at the El Rey show (I presume you'll be there since you're from LA)? Seems like the most appropriate currency for us Hold Steady fans. That's a bet, 99. Except, I'm not sure it will be an accurate guide on metacritic at that point, because the album would have only been out two days. But, we can exchange info, and have a beer at the next show!
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 21, 2010 15:15:19 GMT -5
My metacritic guess is 72.
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Post by barryjive on Apr 21, 2010 16:14:53 GMT -5
The Hold Steady played at a Pitchfork festival a few years back, no? I know it's hip to hate on them, but I probably would have never listened to THS if it weren't for the positive Pitchfork reviews they garnered. I'm sure I'm not the only one. So I guess I shouldn't have taken my hipster ass to that Harrisburg show after all. And I guess I don't like this album as much as the older ones because I traveled to the future, read the Pitchfork review and it told me it wasn't cool to like The Hold Steady anymore. And I guess the same goes for all my friends who are mildly disappointed by the new album too.
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