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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 14:34:11 GMT -5
I agree kim. Any public figure is going get jammed up somewhere now that nothing is private. I was just commenting on the phenomena of seeing what you do for living critiqued on a board that kinda would seem to be laudatory. There is an irony there isn't there? I just wonder what it would be like to go to work everyday and open the company website and see my work discussed by people who don't even know me. Right down to the sneakers on my feet or the cut of my hair. Just imagine you open your web page and there at the top is "What did Kim fuck up today" and then underneath you see it has 167 views and 46 replies and the first one you open says something about where you bought breakfast and how COULD you be buying breakfast from that place because they encourage the slaughter of hogs in an inhumane fashion. Now are ya gonna wanna see what else people have to say? Are you gonna be encouraged to work? I KNOW that THS are now public domain in some way, they are OUT THERE. My question was kinda, how would YOU feel.
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emily
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Post by emily on Feb 22, 2009 14:55:07 GMT -5
"What did Kim fuck up today"and then underneath you see it has 167 views and 46 replies and the first one you open says something about where you bought breakfast and how COULD you be buying breakfast from that place because they encourage the slaughter of hogs in an inhumane fashion. A thread about what I fucked up today would have way more than 46 replies. And most of the things mentioned would be legitimate fuck-ups. In case anyone was wondering. (I have no criticism so I'm going away now)
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 14:58:11 GMT -5
Yeah but see. You looked to see what KIM fucked up. Man oh man. She isnt even in a rock band.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 17:26:45 GMT -5
and again i do see my work get critqued on a public website..'cause i work for a public website with a comment board. and when people tell me i'm fucking up then i try to fix my fuckups and on other messege boards there actually are open threads about what an idiot/emo/asshole i am though i kinda left that board you deal with this stuff. if you're on the internet you deal with being flamed. if you put yourself out there you deal with critiques. i'd rather somebody hate my writing/performance then be indifferent to it. at least hate means somebody's paying attention and i think a critically engaged, passionate fanbase that questions a band is pretty valuable to them
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 17:27:40 GMT -5
Do you think you are the majority or the minority?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 17:40:06 GMT -5
Do you think you are the majority or the minority? in being flamed on almost every website i visit? the minority in liking my creative works to be critiqued? the majority, or should be this isn't some 'JAMES BLUNT MUST DIE' type site. this isn't Aussie band 'John Butler Fucks Kids' (referring to an annoying aussie singer). we've got a space on a band's website to discuss things we think they need to improve on you need to hold your idols to a high standard. look at Lou Reed and Lester Bangs. currently i like almost everything THS have done but if they start shilling for Marlboro or something damn right we should call them on it the main line of attack i get from non-fans is that THS are boring/bland/cliched/conservative. slots opening for Dave Matthews and Counting Crows aren't helping but lots of good indie bands get dodgy support slots so whatever
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Post by theblondette on Feb 22, 2009 17:44:07 GMT -5
For me, this really hasn't been about THS per se! If this was a thread where people were freaking out about something else altogether, I would have made the same point. I agree with everyone who says that constructive criticism is useful. I stand by my opinion that flipping out, however, is rarely a helpful response, especially on a public forum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 17:50:10 GMT -5
i wish somebody had told me that years ago! and i gotta say that this is probably the most well-behaved board i've posted on or seen
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Post by Elwoodii on Feb 22, 2009 18:09:35 GMT -5
I dont think they want or care about our constructive critisism. They are a band, they make music and play shows. We are fans, we buy CD's and go to shows. It's not a community project, we dont all get a say. I dont understand why people want to throw there two cents into the bands private affairs.
I think this thread did just pop up as a symptom of something that was happening in the forum as a whole. I can't think of any good reasons to critisize THS.
At the moment this thread seems to exist so that we can argue over weather it should exist or not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 18:12:31 GMT -5
I dont think they want or care about our constructive critisism. They are a band, they make music and play shows. We are fans, we buy CD's and go to shows. It's not a community project, we dont all get a say. I dont understand why people want to throw there two cents into the bands private affairs. You don't think fans should be passionatly engaged with art? to take a larger scale: 8 years ago Batman and Robin came out. everybody said 'it sucked. make Batman dark again'. 3 years ago Batman Begins came out i'm not saying creators should listen to our demands but if you're just passivly consuming media without caring about it whats the point? *goes off to write Kellie Sutherland a crazy letter about how Architecture in Helsinki need to go back to twee-pop*
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Post by theblondette on Feb 22, 2009 18:17:33 GMT -5
Elwoodi - "At the moment this thread seems to exist so that we can argue over weather it should exist or not." Ha, well put.
BTW, in more exciting discussion, is that you in your avatar? That is an awesome photo!!
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 18:21:11 GMT -5
I dont think they want or care about our constructive critisism. They are a band, they make music and play shows. We are fans, we buy CD's and go to shows. It's not a community project, we dont all get a say. I dont understand why people want to throw there two cents into the bands private affairs. You don't think fans should be passionatly engaged with art? to take a larger scale: 8 years ago Batman and Robin came out. everybody said 'it sucked. make Batman dark again'. 3 years ago Batman Begins came out i'm not saying creators should listen to our demands but if you're just passivly consuming media without caring about it whats the point? *goes off to write Kellie Sutherland a crazy letter about how Architecture in Helsinki need to go back to twee-pop* I think Batman was remade because more people would spend money on it. I bet it will get remade again. But nothing beats the series. Nothing.
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 18:25:03 GMT -5
you need to hold your idols to a high standard What you need to do is really choose who you idolize carefully, if at all.
But does the fact that Lou Reed shilled for Honda make him any less of the icon he is? I dont think so. I dont think we'll ever see another Lou Reed. he is one of a kind. I saw him say "No one does Lou Reed better than me" and that is a fucking fact. Does Bobby Dylan shilling for VS make his lyrics less strong, less meaningful? I dont think so. And he got to see some fine titties I bet. Didnt Michaelangelo have benefactors? Ya know artists gotta eat too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 18:29:15 GMT -5
You don't think fans should be passionatly engaged with art? to take a larger scale: 8 years ago Batman and Robin came out. everybody said 'it sucked. make Batman dark again'. 3 years ago Batman Begins came out i'm not saying creators should listen to our demands but if you're just passivly consuming media without caring about it whats the point? *goes off to write Kellie Sutherland a crazy letter about how Architecture in Helsinki need to go back to twee-pop* I think Batman was remade because more people would spend money on it. I bet it will get remade again. But nothing beats the series. Nothing. yeah... but which version of Batman gets used was kinda up to the public and the fans. nobody liked the campy Batman anymore so they went with a darker, Frank Miller type thing i'm not saying artists should obey the whims of their fans but saying that we shouldn't care what an artist is doing is a bit silly
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Post by Elwoodii on Feb 22, 2009 18:31:59 GMT -5
I dont think they want or care about our constructive critisism. They are a band, they make music and play shows. We are fans, we buy CD's and go to shows. It's not a community project, we dont all get a say. I dont understand why people want to throw there two cents into the bands private affairs. You don't think fans should be passionatly engaged with art? Thats not really what I said is it. BTW, in more exciting discussion, is that you in your avatar? That is an awesome photo!! Yes it is and they are Bens America specs. They are pretty amazing arent they
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 18:34:15 GMT -5
you were asserting a serious seperation between band and fans. at what point does a band get too big to listen to people's input? i mean locally i can go 'hey you guys are awesome but your name is lame/you're a bit overexposed' or whatever and as long as i keep supporting them and buying tix everything is cool. does that relationship stop after a certain point?
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 18:36:11 GMT -5
I think Batman was remade because more people would spend money on it. I bet it will get remade again. But nothing beats the series. Nothing. yeah... but which version of Batman gets used was kinda up to the public and the fans. nobody liked the campy Batman anymore so they went with a darker, Frank Miller type thing i'm not saying artists should obey the whims of their fans but saying that we shouldn't care what an artist is doing is a bit silly I think the Christian Bale Batman was the campy one. Jesus...if I am in a grocery store and I see an open mic that is the voice I use now instead of Darth Vader.
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 18:36:47 GMT -5
you were asserting a serious seperation between band and fans. at what point does a band get too big to listen to people's input? i mean locally i can go 'hey you guys are awesome but your name is lame/you're a bit overexposed' or whatever and as long as i keep supporting them and buying tix everything is cool. does that relationship stop after a certain point? Ask Mick Jagger.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 18:37:13 GMT -5
he was using a voice changer in the cowl to intimidate criminals and conceal his identity
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 18:37:36 GMT -5
er, Batman, not Mick Jagger
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 18:38:51 GMT -5
I thought it awas to crack them up. And the whole joker thing with the licking of the lips. If you ever sat with anyone doing coke, man, thats the MO.
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Post by hoodrat on Feb 22, 2009 18:40:41 GMT -5
I'm going to avoid grappling with people's specific points and criticisms, but a couple of people have asked what I think of the general discussion. So much tension here lately. Chillz, y’all. For those of you who feel silenced, no one is going to tell you that “reasoned criticism” of the band is unacceptable. Disagreement and criticism are okay. Some people will enjoy it; others won’t. However, the mods and the community frequently request that people keep it personable and friendly around here. Personally, I think that those of you who feel sat upon are usually mistaking (1) disagreement with your conclusions, and/or; (2) criticism of your tone, as social stigmatization of disagreement. But that is not your fault - neither the mods nor the rest of the board have done a good job of communicating expectations for the community. Campfirewood’s manifesto says it all a lot better than I could - we’re building something here.A lot of people here are big fans of the band, and so, if you’re criticizing, you’re almost always going to find that some people that strongly disagree with your criticism. More importantly, folks on the board are concerned about tone. We actually do have a history of intelligent and intimate discussions that respect people’s strong feelings about a variety of issues. What worries most people on the board is not disagreement, but this board’s transition from metaphorical pub full of friendly friends who will love you like a brother (and where everybody knows your name) to anonymous internet board where people dissect the phenomenon that is the hold steady. Back in the day (when I walked barefoot uphill in the snow to school everyday both ways with an anvil on my back, over broken glass), I knew almost everyone’s life-changing Hold Steady story, and I knew what songs and stories helped them through the bad times, and I had some idea what the bad times were. And koob was always hanging around our pub too. So, I could disagree with people, but I also knew where people’s buttons were and how not to push them. And I probably wasn’t going to walk up to koob in his own pub, introduce myself, spill my beer on his jeans, and call him a sellout. That level of intimacy may be more difficult to attain now. Tone is always difficult on the internet, and everyone has bad days, but I have become accustomed to talking about the band here like they are real people and to you guys like you are people that I will see at the pub again tomorrow. I think we all want to keep it that personal to the extent possible. And sometimes that means telling you to stay positive and be sensitive to others. Keep it smart and keep it friendly but disagree all you like. And, yes, I have seen some less than reasoned criticism on here, and less than friendly disagreement on both sides of recent disputes, but we can all be more forgiving of such things. I’ve blown my lid on here a couple of times. Other messageboards are not our standard of conduct; they’re not even a useful comparison as far as I’m concerned. You will also find that there are some people - but not all - who think that slagging off the band on the band’s messageboard is always lame (but especially when done without the “reasoned criticism”). They’re entitled to their opinions too. You don't have to accept or agree, but you do need to deal. But I think you’ll find a wide range of opinions expressed about the band and about particular songs and albums just among the mods. There is nothing I like better than to talk about Cheyenne Sunrise over a beer or 6 - and a juicebox. It hurts my heart a little that anyone could find something wrong with that song, but I’m willing to listen. Especially if the criticism does not include “nerds in shirts”or “flaming bear poo” or “blumps” or “indie hiptards” or “shot into the center of the sun” or “old fat and impotent” or “this board sucks” or “money-grubbing” or “srsly what is that shit” or “smug, douchey, bong-smoking fratboys with backwards phillies caps” or “sucks little girl balls” or “censorship” or {insert hyperbole of choice}.* This is now a place where internet avatars drop by and voice their random thoughts on a song they heard once, which is fine, but it isn’t the point. I want the random avatars to stay and become faces and shirts and beers and friends. I want to know their life-changing Hold Steady stories, if they have them. I wish everyone could have an opportunity for a killer parties stage invasion, and to jam with the band, and sing karaoke with franz, and embarrass yourself by saying something stupid to Craig, and shotgun a beer with koob or all sort of things that won’t happen as much, or at all, anymore. But I still want to know what songs make you tick and which ones don’t. And I want to convince you that this is the greatest rock n’ roll band making music today. And even if you don’t get converted tonight, you’ll have to admit that the Natty Light blows.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 18:41:09 GMT -5
someone mentioned he was playing with the stitches on the inside of his mouth you can probably track cultural changes over the past century by which version of Batman has been popular vs which was in the comics at the time... there are a few good books on the subject there's also an awesome book on Batman manga anyway as a comic fan i have the right to say that Frank Miller has gone senile and insane. and why can we diss Christian Bale but not THS?
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Post by hoodrat on Feb 22, 2009 18:42:56 GMT -5
There is nothing I like better than to talk about Cheyenne Sunrise over a beer or 6 - and a juicebox. It hurts my heart a little that anyone could find something wrong with that song, but I’m willing to listen. Especially if the criticism does not include “nerds in shirts”or “flaming bear poo” or “blumps” or “indie hiptards” or “shot into the center of the sun” or “old fat and impotent” or “this board sucks” or “money-grubbing” or “srsly what is that shit” or “smug, douchey, bong-smoking fratboys with backwards phillies caps” or “sucks little girl balls” or “censorship” or {insert hyperbole of choice}.* *CONTEST: write up a short paragraph about anything that includes all of those phrases. PM it to me, and I’ll put my favorite entries to a vote in a new thread. Best entry wins yet-to-be-determined lame prize. yes, i'm completely serious, and rawkguitars is not around to call me a nob for quoting myself.
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Post by biblesalesman on Feb 22, 2009 18:53:05 GMT -5
Just tell me what a "blump" is? Cause one time I think my girlfriend did that and it kinda took me by surprise.
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