Ranking Open Door Policy

[talulabaker]

Now we've had a bit of time to digest the quite wonderful ODP, how would you rank the songs in order of greatness?

For me

Heavy Covenant

Spices

Unpleasant Breakfast

Lanyards

Hanover Camera

Parade Days

The Feelers

Me and Magdalena

Family Farm

The Prior Procedure

Riptown


2 and 3 were very tough to choose between

[muzzleofbees]

I have to admit I've listened less to it after the inital first weeks, but I've also listened enough that the songs keep spinning in my mind. So I think this is where I'm at:

01. Unpleasant Breakfast
02. Heavy Covenant
03. Family Farm
04. Spices
05. Lanyards
06. The Feelers
07. Riptown
08. The Prior Procedure
09. Hanover Camera
10. Me And Magdalena

I should probably include Parade Days too, since it's been a so integral part of everything around the relase. I think I would put in at #7, right before Riptown.

[star18]

My rankings are:

1. Heavy Covenant
2. The Prior Procedure
3. Unpleasant Breakfast
4. Family Farm
5. Me and Magdalena
6. Spices
7. Lanyards
8. Hanover Camera
9. Parade Days
10. The Feelers
11. Riptown

"Heavy Covenant" is just so perfect and emblematic of THS 3.0 for me. The lyrics, the arrangement, the sonics -- everything just clicks. 

Feels like "Prior Procedure" is the most polarizing cut on the record. I get it -- it's not an easy one to sing along to, but damn that guitar / organ / horns interplay on the prechorus & chorus just kills me every time. 

For me, the top half of this list is all unimpeachable. "Prior," "Breakfast," and "Family Farm" are instant THS classics in my book.  "Spices," "Lanyards" and "Hanover" are genuinely great songs that are only in the bottom half because the top half is so strong. "Parade Days" and "Feelers" are interesting too, just a step down. And "Riptown" is by far my least favorite on the record -- which of course still means like it more than most songs released this year.

[talulabaker]

I ran this poll on Reddit as well
Heavy Covenant has been top in every single one

Why was it not the lead single?

[charlie]

Mine are below. I like this record in tiers, it seems like. While I think it's a very good work, I don't think it has the signature THS opener or closer that their classic-period records had. The top tier, IMO, stands with anything and I hope are regulars in the set for years to come. 

1. Unpleasant Breakfast
2. Spices
3. Heavy Covenant
4. Family Farm
5. Lanyards
--------------------

6. The Feelers
7. Parade Days
8. The Prior Procedure
9. Me & Magdalena
10. Hanover Camera
11. Riptown

[star18]

Jun 9, 2021 1:55:52 GMT -5 talulabaker said:

I ran this poll on Reddit as well
Heavy Covenant has been top in every single one

Why was it not the lead single?

Lead singles are (in my opinion) often more about getting people's attention, rather than necessarily being the best-crafted song. I feel like guitar-heavy rock bands usually like to lead with one of the most uptempo/high-energy songs. "Covenant" is really musically satisfying but the intro & first verse are pretty restrained, compared to the first 30 seconds of "Family Farm" which are just a blast of Springsteenite glory.  So you get everyone's attention with the banger, and then (hopefully) encourage them to delve into the other stuff.

[skepticatfirst]

1. Heavy Covenant
2. Unpleasant Breakfast
3. Spices
4. The Feelers
5. Hanover Camera
6. Riptown
7. Me & Magdalena
8. Lanyards
9. Family Farm
10. Parade Days
11. The Prior Procedure

I had to really think about Spices vs Feelers, which besides being a really well put together song has that narrative thing going that makes it really important to me. But for listening, I have to give Spices the edge ... comes on really strong musically and lyrically, has a surprising amount of variety in it. 

Riptown feels a little thrown together, but it's got some real lyrical keepers ("the kids on the corner they ain't here for their health/ they're just trying to uphold the traditions") and an unhinged giddy Blonde On Blonde vibe that I like a lot.

Parade days is a very fine song but it's just not my jam.

Me & Magdalena, Family Farm, and The Prior Procedure all feel to me like the lyrics are kind of wedged in there, with intelligibility winning out over the rhythm and tempo, but at a cost. M&M is the strongest of the three lyrically, and I really wanted to put it higher just because it's such a cool and different sound, but in the end that struggle kind of limits it.

There aren't many Craig lyrics I dislike more than the opening verse of Family Farm, and I don't care for the "one specific way" chorus either, so despite some strong points in "Said faithful has its limits I just want to see his face" and the whole "She said you get what you get when you push too far ahead" verse, it tops out at #9. 

The Prior Procedure has some obvious strengths musically but it just never came together for me. 

Heavy Covenant is relentless and amazing, and Unpleasant Breakfast is a lot of fucking fun for all the agony in it. Truly great songs, both.

[bigontheinside]

This is hard! I must say I didn't realise Heavy Covenant was such a favourite here.

1. Unpleasant Breakfast
2. Spices
3. Lanyards
4. Family Farm
5. Hanover Camera
6. Me & Magdalena
7. Heavy Covenant
8. The Feelers
9. Riptown
10. The Prior Procedure

Love all these songs so this was tricky! I really think ODP is one of their most consistent albums. There are some songs like Me & Magdalena and The Feelers which I love but aren't ones I'll put on unless I'm listening to the whole album, even though in some ways they're two of the best on the record.

Parade Days is hard to rate for me for some reason, probably just need to spend more time with it

[bigontheinside]

Jun 9, 2021 21:08:15 GMT -5 skepticatfirst said:

There aren't many Craig lyrics I dislike more than the opening verse of Family Farm

Mind if I ask why? Seems like pretty classic Craig to me

[kayfaberaven]

Jun 10, 2021 7:27:43 GMT -5 bigontheinside said:

Parade Days is hard to rate for me for some reason, probably just need to spend more time with it

I almost exclusively listen to ODP on CD in the car (and it's pretty much the only thing I listen to in the car when I drive, to the extent that my family has started complaining), so I fear that Parade Days will end up being a forgotten song for me since it's not on the CD.

[skepticatfirst]

Jun 10, 2021 8:07:02 GMT -5 bigontheinside said:

Jun 9, 2021 21:08:15 GMT -5 skepticatfirst said:

There aren't many Craig lyrics I dislike more than the opening verse of Family Farm

Mind if I ask why? Seems like pretty classic Craig to me

I alluded to part of it above, the feeling that the lyrics are wedged in to fit, badly, over the frame of the music, but really that's just part of it.

Craig's a master of language. When he's on, he's in total control, and it's amazing to hear; you know, intellectually, that he puts a lot of work into it, but it seems effortless. Crazy good lines that flow so smooth they almost seem lazy, or ones that come out like possessed prophecies. Images that seem to create one rich story that in fact conceal another. Complicated resonances between verses and titles that create amazing, complex themes.

With the opening of Family Farm, I'm not feeling that mastery.

The short measures (really only two lyrical beats per line) are boxing Craig in, not the other way around. "Sure they let you keep your handset" is just weak; "sure" is glued on there like pure metrical filler. 

The hospital theme is bizarre, it's all about phones, with nothing else to connect organically to the announced hospital setting. Later on it's mentioned that the girl the Narrator is talking to is willing to trade her medications, but that's all that remains of the medical theme. So where's it all going? It just feels thrown together and left to hang. 


Edit: I was falling asleep when I wrote this, but should have continued with a counterexample. Take Lanyards, which at #8 obviously isn't my favorite, but is still a very solid song; it does way better on both of the above counts. 

Like the verses of Family Farm, the choruses of Lanyards are naturally partitioned into short metrical bursts, but in Lanyards Craig just rolls over the bursty contours and makes them work for him. So much easy power there.

Also, without ever saying too much, he creates a deeply vivid story of a guy going out to the West Coast and failing to do what he went there to do, but still getting through. A real subtle weave of narrative from start to finish. 

Family Farm, by contrast, is all over the place. Hope that clarifies.

[skepticatfirst]

And i guess one more afterthought: there's Craigs earlier storytelling style, with openly Charlemagne-Gideon-Holly narrative bits that deliberately do shoot all over the place (Barfruit Blues, Hostile Mass, etc.).  And if Craig wanted to pick that up again, I'd be right there for it.  But

    St. Catherine's was a nightmare
    You know they took away my headphones

is a long way from

    You came into the ER drinking gin from a jam jar
    And the nurse is making jokes about the ER being like an after bar

[bigontheinside]

Jun 11, 2021 11:13:16 GMT -5 skepticatfirst said:

And i guess one more afterthought: there's Craigs earlier storytelling style, with openly Charlemagne-Gideon-Holly narrative bits that deliberately do shoot all over the place (Barfruit Blues, Hostile Mass, etc.).  And if Craig wanted to pick that up again, I'd be right there for it.  But

    St. Catherine's was a nightmare
    You know they took away my headphones

is a long way from

    You came into the ER drinking gin from a jam jar
    And the nurse is making jokes about the ER being like an after bar

That's very fair actually. I do think there are much worse lyrics on Teeth Dreams and HIW though.

[sequesteredinuk]

The best THS album for years. No great revelations here. I'm on board with most.

1. Heavy Covenant
2. Lanyards
3. Unpleasant Breakfast
4. Spices
5. The Feelers
6. Family Farm
7. Hanover Camera
8. The Prior Procedure
9. Me and Magdalena
10. Riptown


That was harder than I thought it would be. You always have the thought that once you out a song at #10 people will assume that you think it sucks? But this one doesnt. Some albums the 10th song sucks. Not this one. I don't like adding bonus tracks to a ranking. I always think of them as B sides.....rightly or wrongly. Parade Days is a solid track however. 

[lukeindetroit]

1. Heavy Covenant
2. Unpleasant Breakfast
3. Spices
4. Hanover Camera
5. Family Farm
6. Lanyards
7. Me & Magdalena
8. The Prior Procedure
9. Parade Days
10. Riptown
11. The Feelers


First three are all timers

[jz]

Like most albums, there are songs I gravitate to more on some days and less on others, but I think this best represents my overall feeling.


1. Lanyards
2. Me & Magdalena
3. Family Farm
4. Heavy Covenant (if I were judging strictly based on the first half of the song, it'd be #1; back half of the song, probably 8 or 9, mostly because the lyrics in the first half are so much stronger than the second, and the main music loop sort of wears out its welcome when not accompanied by the great lyrics of the first half)
5. The Prior Procedure
6. Spices
7. Unpleasant Breakfast
8. Hanover Camera
9. Parade Days (I'm not sure why this feels right so low on the list, because I tend to enjoy it more than other songs that are higher, but I suppose it's because when the other songs are hitting with me, they really hit, while Parade Days is just consistently pleasant? I always like it, but I've yet to have that listen where it really gets into me, whereas with the other songs I've had those moments)
10. The Feelers
11. Riptown (I'm not sure what it is, but when CF mentions computers in the first line of a song, it ends up at the bottom of people's lists...weird)

[tbob]

I don’t get the low rankings for The Feelers. It’s either joint first with Spices, or number one on it’s own.
I think it’s another classic album opener from a band that know how to do that well. I remember hearing it in London and saying on here how good I thought it was, though I’m no expert on remembering new songs well at shows. Then I heard “…she had a couple problems / I guess the big one is she's someone else's wife” and remembered. I think it’s Craig at his best and Franz kills it too.
Number one.