robs
Hoodrat
Posts: 297
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Post by robs on Mar 25, 2019 11:04:25 GMT -5
Where did five years go?
I seem to remember it was received well here, but appears to have fallen out of favour with fans and maybe the band too. I still love it and play it a lot, and The Only Thing and Oaks for me are up there with my favourite THS songs.
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charlie
Sniffling Indie Kid
Posts: 214
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Post by charlie on Mar 25, 2019 12:28:59 GMT -5
I still really like it as a collection of songs, but I'm with what Craig said this year: that he wished it had keys. The highs are still pretty high, though. Spinners, Only Thing, Oaks all rule.
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Post by bmegroove on Mar 25, 2019 15:29:57 GMT -5
Oaks forever
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tbob
True Scene Leader
Posts: 548
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Post by tbob on Mar 25, 2019 16:42:10 GMT -5
I still really like it as a collection of songs, but I'm with what Craig said this year: that he wished it had keys. The highs are still pretty high, though. Spinners, Only Thing, Oaks all rule. Same here. Since Franz came back I’ve only seen them do Frighten and On With the Business live. I’d love to hear Only Thing and Oaks with his keys.
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Post by spencerm on Mar 26, 2019 0:23:11 GMT -5
Oaks is great, but it never clicked for me live. The full song is too long for a THS show and the shorter version they were doing seemed to strip the song of its grandeur.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Mar 26, 2019 5:36:04 GMT -5
I have some mixed feelings about Teeth Dreams. It felt great when it arrived, but it was partly because of the longing for new music. I still feel some of the tracks hold up really well. Frighten is sharp, Spinners is a classic poprock gem and The Ambassador is both melodic and sonically one of their most beautiful slow jams. I think the latter part has great tracks as well, but they bleed a little too much into each other. And I think it has a lot do to with what Craig labeled as "lack of keys", but what you easily can broaden out to production, sound and dynamics. It's just too much guitars, as if the guitars try to compensate for what's not there. It's just not much air, not enough space to let the different parts breathe. A guitar heavy record didn't have to sound like this - just compare it to Almost Killed Me, where very guitar-y songs like Most People Are DJs or Knuckles have a lot more space in them. The same goes for the guitar heaviest of the new tracks, like Snake In The Shower. Just a lot more dynamic and kind to the ears.
In the past couple of years I've heard Teeth Dreams as a partly failed attempt to reinvent Hold Steady in the image of what they used to be. And after 2017, it seems pretty clear that the direction of the new songs are a way more natural and successfull way to do that reinvention.
That doesn't mean Teeth Dreams is bad. I think it's a really strong 8/10 record for me. But it just engage or thrill me in the same way any of the other releases do. Even Heaven Is Whenever is a pretty clear step up the ladder in my point of view.
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bigontheinside
Midnight Hauler
If you don't know the words, don't sing along
Posts: 1,478
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Post by bigontheinside on Mar 26, 2019 7:58:10 GMT -5
The first 4 songs of this album rule. The Ambassador is probably the most underrated THS song for me, maybe tied with Barely Breathing. I love Big Cig's chorus and the guitar solo, even if the verses aren't great. I'd like On With The Business a lot more if it were a little shorter. Then you've got Wait A While and Runner's High, which are the worst songs on the album and at this point there's been too many guitar heavy songs in a row and it works against the album as a whole. Luckily you've got Almost Everything and Oaks to end the album which are both fantastic.
The production on Teeth Dreams just doesn't quite work. It sounds awesome in places - Frighten You sounds massive and The Only Thing is really detailed and layered. Craig's voice just doesn't sound good on a lot of these songs. There's too much reverb/delay on his voice (especially on Runner's High, there's sooo much) and he's EQ'd so high. I have to say though, the guitar tones are awesome on this album, way better than on Heaven Is Whenever.
The production on the new songs is awesome by the way. Exactly how they should sound in 2019 in my opinion. Feels more like a live band and it works brilliantly with the songs.
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Post by Rattlesnake Gospel on Mar 26, 2019 9:00:31 GMT -5
I have some mixed feelings about Teeth Dreams. It felt great when it arrived, but it was partly because of the longing for new music. I still feel some of the tracks hold up really well. Frighten is sharp, Spinners is a classic poprock gem and The Ambassador is both melodic and sonically one of their most beautiful slow jams. I think the latter part has great tracks as well, but they bleed a little too much into each other. And I think it has a lot do to with what Craig labeled as "lack of keys", but what you easily can broaden out to production, sound and dynamics. It's just too much guitars, as if the guitars try to compensate for what's not there. It's just not much air, not enough space to let the different parts breathe. A guitar heavy record didn't have to sound like this - just compare it to Almost Killed Me, where very guitar-y songs like Most People Are DJs or Knuckles have a lot more space in them. The same goes for the guitar heaviest of the new tracks, like Snake In The Shower. Just a lot more dynamic and kind to the ears. In the past couple of years I've heard Teeth Dreams as a partly failed attempt to reinvent Hold Steady in the image of what they used to be. And after 2017, it seems pretty clear that the direction of the new songs are a way more natural and successfull way to do that reinvention. That doesn't mean Teeth Dreams is bad. I think it's a really strong 8/10 record for me. But it just engage or thrill me in the same way any of the other releases do. Even Heaven Is Whenever is a pretty clear step up the ladder in my point of view. Right on. I've always been in the keys/piano camp, and regardless of what was going on between them at the time I got a chuckle out of Franz saying something like "I don't think THS is a band that needed more guitars" in an interview. I agree with bigontheinside as well; the first half is damn near flawless but that stretch with "Wait Awhile" and "Runner's High" really bogs down the album as a whole. Then, truthfully, there was a time I hoped they'd never record another song after "Oaks"; it's such a beautifully tragic note for the band to go out on. That long instrumental stretch at the end just sounds like THS going out in a horrible blaze of glory (then came the new songs and of course I didn't feel that way anymore). My wife doesn't care for TD at all; she says it just sounds like a classic rock record and at the Brooklyn shows every year, anything from TD are her bathroom break songs. I'd probably rate it at an 8/10 as well, and that's still a pretty damn good record.
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charlie
Sniffling Indie Kid
Posts: 214
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Post by charlie on Mar 26, 2019 13:07:54 GMT -5
I forgot about On with the Business, which I love. And Saddle Shoes and Records and Tapes as non-album tracks. There's more good out of this era than not.
It just needs another breather or two in the second half.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Mar 26, 2019 16:46:12 GMT -5
I forgot about On with the Business, which I love. And Saddle Shoes and Records and Tapes as non-album tracks. There's more good out of this era than not. It just needs another breather or two in the second half. I really, really love Records And Tapes. And I dig Saddle Shoes too. But On With The Business has to be pretty close to the top of my list of least favourable Hold Steady songs. It's well-written and have some nice parts, but just feels way to cold, metallic and joyless. I'm not a big fan of The Only Thing either. And Wait A While just gets worse every time I hear it. On the other hand, I really like Big Cig, at least when it's lifted out of the tracklist of Teeth Dreams. And allthough Runner's High is a quite mediocre composition, and also not sounding especially nice sound wise, I sort of like it. It's just has a lot more of a filler feeling to it than anything on the five previous albums. I know Oaks is well regarded around here, but it never did anything for me. It's just too sweeping and big and sad for me. I felt the same way about A Slight Discomfort for a long time, but I've grown to appreciate the darkness and the dramatics of it. Oaks just never hit me that way. Allthough I might hear it otherwise if it turned out to be the swan song Tad has admitted he thought it might would be. Revisiting Teeth Dreams have made me appreciate the new songs even more. There's just a totally different feeling to them, and I'm so glad we got to keep Hold Steady around as an active, writing and recording band for a few more years.
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Post by doctoracula on Mar 27, 2019 18:56:23 GMT -5
it's a good album but the biggest issue for me is the production. as people have already mentioned, there's just no dynamics. everything is so flat and maxed out all the time. makes it an exhausting listen and it all starts to blend together after a while. my favorite song from the whole era is "records and tapes", i wish it was on the proper album. i'll always consider "saddle shoes" part of the sequence since it's on the LP, and it works very well as track 6. "on with the business" and "runner's high" are big highlights to me. "runner's high" especially, mostly because of the bridge into the ending. when he says "then it came true" and the band kind of falls away, i love it. craig sounds genuinely desperate in that ending, and that's what totally makes it for me. "the only thing" is really good, too, but i miss the earlier version of the song with all the different lyrics. it sounds simplified on the album and i think the song suffers because of it. the demo has the original lyrics but not the drive of the LP version. ah well.
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Post by gunnerbill on Mar 28, 2019 0:46:10 GMT -5
Oaks is transcendent...
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Post by mtruslow on Apr 29, 2019 10:33:59 GMT -5
“Saddle Shoes” is such a great song and imo it leaves everything on “Teeth Dreams” in the dust.
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Post by lukeindetroit on May 6, 2019 15:23:35 GMT -5
Oaks is one of the great THS songs ever. Almost everything is an amazing song too. There's definitely some duds though.
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Post by stonemason on May 12, 2019 17:05:05 GMT -5
If you've never heard the Look Alive (Water Music Demo) check it out, it's really something special. Also I have personally seen THS (with Franz) perform Frighten, Spinners, Business, and Oaks.
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Post by maaskesr on Jun 13, 2019 15:18:50 GMT -5
Album has been all over the place for me - at first I just liked the overly catchy tunes (Big Cig, Wait a While), when I came back to it after awhile it was the opening two tracks, and now I really love The Only Thing, especially the last minute or so. Can never get "Last night her teeth were in my dreams" refrain out of my head. I saw them play it live once, hopefully will get to again someday.
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Post by Rattlesnake Gospel on Jun 14, 2019 13:30:38 GMT -5
Album has been all over the place for me - at first I just liked the overly catchy tunes (Big Cig, Wait a While), when I came back to it after awhile it was the opening two tracks, and now I really love The Only Thing, especially the last minute or so. Can never get "Last night her teeth were in my dreams" refrain out of my head. I saw them play it live once, hopefully will get to again someday. Aside from songs I'll likely never hear no matter how many shows I attend (e.g. Curves & Nerves) The Only Thing is at the top of my list. I'd love to hear Oaks too, but only if they do the full version so I can weep uncontrollably in my beer while the extended solo goes on.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Jun 16, 2019 4:17:17 GMT -5
I think they played The Only Thing in Oslo in 2012, at the time it still was called Teeth Dreams, and we didn't have any idea that an album with this title was in the making.
For me, The Only Thing falls into a category of Hold Steady songs I've always found really well-written, complete and "right" sounding, but without the abiity to move me emotionally. I have the same thing about The Weekenders, Sequestered In Memphis and Stay Positive - all to a lesser degree, as in I like them more, but they still lack that bittersweet touch who make me really, really love a large portion of the other songs.
Since I got a lot of free time this morning, I figured I might as well rank the Teeth Dreams era songs from best to worst for me personally:
01. Spinners 02. Records And Tapes 03. The Ambassador 04. I Hope This Whole Thing Didn't Frighten You 05. Almost Everything 06. Saddle Shoes 07. Runner's High 08. Big Cig 09. The Only Thing 10. Oaks 11. On With The Business 12. Wait A While 13. Look Alive
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Post by doctoracula on Jun 16, 2019 10:37:56 GMT -5
Oooh I like ranking things. I’d go:
Records and Tapes The Only Thing Saddle Shoes On With the Business Runner’s High The Ambassador Spinners I Hope This Whole Thing Didn’t Frighten You Almost Everything Big Cig Oaks Look Alive Wait awhile
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charlie
Sniffling Indie Kid
Posts: 214
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Post by charlie on Jun 16, 2019 14:14:20 GMT -5
I also like ranking things:
Spinners Records and Tapes The Only Thing On With the Business Saddle Shoes Oaks The Ambassador Almost Everything Big Cig I Hope This Whole Thing Didn’t Frighten You Runner’s High Wait Awhile Look Alive
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Post by thedreadedlaramie on Jun 17, 2019 8:25:38 GMT -5
Spinners The Only Thing Big Cig Almost Everything On With The Business Records and Tapes The Ambassador IHTWTDFY Wait a While Saddles Shoes Oaks Runner's High Look Alive
I really like most of these songs; it's a shame about their production. Wish they would play Big Cig and Only Thing more!
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bigontheinside
Midnight Hauler
If you don't know the words, don't sing along
Posts: 1,478
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Post by bigontheinside on Jun 17, 2019 9:28:36 GMT -5
Oaks Almost Everything The Ambassador ...Frighten You The Only Thing Big Cig Spinners On With The Business Saddle Shoes Runner's High Records & Tapes Look Alive Wait A While
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Post by mja271 on Jun 17, 2019 11:06:16 GMT -5
Was stoked to see The Ambassador make an appearance at the CT show last month, that was unexpected and the first time live since Franz came back. I liked this album but echo most of the criticisms seen here. Still somewhat frequently return to certain tracks outside of the context of the record. I remember seeing them play Look Alive back in 2012 and thinking that would be the next great THS song, I freaking loved it. The demo version is awesome. They tinkered with the lyrics and the recorded B Side version was a huge disappointment to me.
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Post by kayfaberaven on Jun 19, 2019 21:23:02 GMT -5
I'm always shocked at the love The Ambassador gets. To me, it's a cloying, mid-tempo dirge, and far and away my least favourite THS song ever. I should probably give it another chance.
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Post by doctoracula on Jun 19, 2019 22:57:33 GMT -5
I'm always shocked at the love The Ambassador gets. To me, it's a cloying, mid-tempo dirge, and far and away my least favourite THS song ever. I should probably give it another chance. I like how it kinda saunters along for a while and then ramps up in a great way when they hit the “you came back to us” part. That makes the whole song for me. It’s like a hazy memory of someplace and then it comes into clearer focus by the end.
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