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Post by biblesalesman on Dec 12, 2008 9:26:00 GMT -5
I keep reading how the goverment wont "bail out" the Auto industry, yet one of the biggest issues is that the UAW wont give up cratin benefits and wage increases. Are they fucking nuts? Isnt this what put the auto industry in the hopper to begin with? if the whole thing folds they will all be out of jobs and when it starts up again the union will be as worthless a shit and gum. I truly do not understand people. Do they not see how many folks this is going to hurt? its not like the goverment isnt going to give them the money, they just want something in return, like the relinquising of womb to tomb health benefits.
Sorry. I am really sick of all the bad news coming out of the financial world and then going to target and seeing people buying 8 ft inflatable Santa's and mini DVD recorders.
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Post by somuchjoy on Dec 12, 2008 9:40:28 GMT -5
yes.
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Post by WhiskeyDaisy on Dec 12, 2008 9:43:25 GMT -5
Personally, I am really enjoying the blue/white collar double standard. Nobody asked the financial industry CEOs about employee wages, benefits and personal jets.
XO
WD
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Post by heidivandernice, nice on Dec 12, 2008 9:45:20 GMT -5
my roommate works for a luxury concierge service. one of his clients got laid off recently and asked my roommate to find him FRENCH CLASSES AND DANCE CLASSES. dude, what about you know... saving? looking for a job? people are fucking clueless.
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Post by jwd on Dec 12, 2008 9:48:14 GMT -5
my roommate works for a luxury concierge service. one of his clients got laid off recently and asked my roommate to find him FRENCH CLASSES AND DANCE CLASSES. dude, what about you know... saving? looking for a job? people are fucking clueless. Just saw a want ad for lead male dancer for Paris ballet. Big $, plus benefits. That guy is crazy like a fox... |
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Post by heidivandernice, nice on Dec 12, 2008 9:52:00 GMT -5
my roommate works for a luxury concierge service. one of his clients got laid off recently and asked my roommate to find him FRENCH CLASSES AND DANCE CLASSES. dude, what about you know... saving? looking for a job? people are fucking clueless. Just saw a want ad for lead male dancer for Paris ballet. Big $, plus benefits. That guy is crazy like a fox... we're in a fight. |
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Post by heidivandernice, nice on Dec 12, 2008 9:58:22 GMT -5
Market being made on Dill avatar at 200-1. it's a bad time to invest, even in warriors |
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Post by heidivandernice, nice on Dec 12, 2008 10:05:13 GMT -5
it's a bad time to invest, even in warriors Warrior fatigue has been factored into the analysis, as has the fact that the market is currently far more depressed for Alaskan governors due to, among other indicia of negative downward pressure, the complete collapse of U.S. oil prices and the long knives of one's own "party." i'm not sure what you're talking about. we upper darby PA-ers are quite proud of the homeland's perseverance |
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Post by theblondette on Dec 12, 2008 10:17:03 GMT -5
WD: over here a lot of law firms are laying people off - there have been a lot of redundancies at my bf's firm. Another, quite major, firm has shut an entire office. BUT have the partners taken a pay cut? No. How much did equity partners take home in that firm last year? Approx £800k. Who is being laid off? Support staff, newly qualified solicitors and occasionally (but less often) salaried partners. The legal press is having a field day.
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Post by 212margarita on Dec 12, 2008 10:37:49 GMT -5
I keep reading how the goverment wont "bail out" the Auto industry, yet one of the biggest issues is that the UAW wont give up cratin benefits and wage increases. Are they fucking nuts? Isnt this what put the auto industry in the hopper to begin with? if the whole thing folds they will all be out of jobs and when it starts up again the union will be as worthless a shit and gum. I truly do not understand people. Do they not see how many folks this is going to hurt? its not like the goverment isnt going to give them the money, they just want something in return, like the relinquising of womb to tomb health benefits. Sorry. I am really sick of all the bad news coming out of the financial world and then going to target and seeing people buying 8 ft inflatable Santa's and mini DVD recorders. While I do agree that the Union is a part of the problem, they are not the only reason the auto industry in this country is going down the tubes. From the top down managment in the auto industry has been dysfunctional and backwards for a good decade. Poor decision making and the inability to react appropriately to the market have caused as many problems as the unions have. Really the concept of a Union in a global economy is pretty ridiculous, but you can't simply blame them for not wanting to give up their pay and benefits when at least from what i have heard no one is asking senior managment at these companys to renegotiate their contracts when their poor planning and archaic buisness model is a large factor in this whole mess. There is plenty of blame to go around on this. |
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meoskop
True Scene Leader
Posts: 709 
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Post by meoskop on Dec 12, 2008 11:01:14 GMT -5
Personally, I am really enjoying the blue/white collar double standard. Nobody asked the financial industry CEOs about employee wages, benefits and personal jets. XO WD And victim blaming always rocks. Never underestimate that good time, right? |
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Post by Placid Casual on Dec 12, 2008 15:40:49 GMT -5
i cannot even get started in this thread. i'll just say i just took a 10% pay cut yesterday with the possibility that it's all going to be lost in the very near future. If you chime in here, please be sure you know what the hell you are talking about first (not directed at anyone, just saying).
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Post by WhiskeyDaisy on Dec 12, 2008 16:06:11 GMT -5
i cannot even get started in this thread. i'll just say i just took a 10% pay cut yesterday with the possibility that it's all going to be lost in the very near future. If you chime in here, please be sure you know what the hell you are talking about first (not directed at anyone, just saying). Crap. I was so looking forward to your input. Crap. PM? My guess is that you're the only one of us in it and will have some insight. XO WD |
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Post by biblesalesman on Dec 12, 2008 16:09:30 GMT -5
There are certain industries, the financial markets being one of them, that cannot be allowed to die because they generate too much money. Had AIG/Merrill/Goldman all gone under (and had AIG tipped so would have Goldman) we would have been in a deep spiral. The firings from Lehman and Bear Stearns are immense. Do you have any idea how many UAW jobs those firings amount to? So to say that the white collar has not felt the pinch is sort of an understatement. Three major Law firms have already eaten the bullet and you can be sure more are to follow. Those that didnt diversify and relied on corporate finance are fucked.
The auto industry, is being given a chance, and they are refusing. Remember, the owners can walk away and be fine for the next 20 years thank you very much. But the workers are saying "hey dont touch our wages, dont touch our benefits" yet no one is buying the cars!! We have to realize that the auto industry in America was a social experiment that was engineered by Ford. Everything has changed now. The US DOESNT rule the car industry. There are alternatives and we havent competed well. And most of the benefits and wage increases were based on people working til they were 65 and dying at 68. Now UAW workers work till they are 50 and retire with a hefty fucking pension and full medical FOR LIFE!! My Dad was a union man and he used to laugh at how much he was getting paid. He firmly believed they were killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The Financial industry did the same thing. One is not better than the other.
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Post by Placid Casual on Dec 12, 2008 16:26:24 GMT -5
edit: i am retracting my statements. I should listen to my own advice and know a little bit more about what i am talking about first. anyway, i was really upset about my own situation at the time and made some uninformed statements.
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Post by somuchjoy on Dec 12, 2008 17:05:20 GMT -5
I do a fair amount of work with companies in this situation and, currently, alot of auto-related cos. It's really a complex set of issues just at the corporate level -- and the pre-bankruptcy dance is too early for anyone to price themselves in the deal (to mix my metaphor). What's going on with the key players is not really out of the ordinary, though. People play chicken all the time, and all of the constitutents are being really well advised.
BUT, further complicating issues, it gets REALLY weird when you overlay national politics on it, particularly in this economic environment. In fact, the scariest thing about right now is that the people who I really respect to provide measured, long-term views are all kinda going "I dunno." So I don't know if you can call anyone stupid for playing chicken. Quite frankly, for now it looks like the union called it right in assuming that Bush would release TARP funds (to be continued over the weekend for sure) instead of having his administration end with armageddon.
Three things seem pretty clear to me though.
1) A congress acting with real leadership would have written a new chapter of the bankruptcy code to address the particular concerns dealing with critical vendors, warranties, backing of debtor in possession financing and the like. (There is already a pretty hefty pair of collective bargaining provisions.) As a condition of gvt assistance, all of them would go through pre-packs and fix their capital structures before the golden geese die.
2) Lots of people are going to lose their jobs in autos and everywhere else, and we should all help them how we can.
3) On the front steps of the white house, waiting for PE Obama, is a paper bag full of auto dogshit that, for purely political reasons, people are waiting until the week of inauguration to ignite in the hopes that Obama stomps on it.
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Post by biblesalesman on Dec 12, 2008 22:05:35 GMT -5
GM has enlisted Weil Gotshal to begin bankruptcy proceedings.Chrysler has hired Jones Day. I smell billables.
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