dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520 
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 9:43:41 GMT -5
They are a band for fucks sake. Its how they make their living. I think its funny as shit some of the things put up you can pledge for....maybe you all need to get your tongues in your cheek a little. Drink a six pack with a band member? I'd have paid to do that but I did it when they needed help loading out at Valentines in 2006. If I had 15K I would in a second get them to play my house. If I win the lottery I am paying 30 and getting a two hour show....with "Hey, Hey" as a cover version. AND THEY ARE GIVING PART OF IT TO A GREAT CAUSE!! How many of you go to work and on the way home stop off and give a portion of your pay to charity? Fuck all these naysayers. Good job Boys. Cant wait to hear what comes out of it. And if you buy the jog with Craig, its a nice slow trot. Jesus, please though, stop complaining.Its their music, their band, and your money....when it meets up it has kids and this is what sometimes happens. The kids grow up. I already bought the album but may go for the anniverdary show, but I really dont want to have to go to Harrisburg....even on a good day....its Harrisburg. Warsaw...thats all I'm saying
|
|
|
|
Post by WhiskeyDaisy on Nov 24, 2013 12:23:57 GMT -5
1. How much are they giving to the great cause? Every charity event should disclose this and usually does unless it's unflattering.
2. To some of us from the beginning or core of the Unified Scene, this feels like they are trying to monetize our organic love and joy and friendship. To commodify something that is free. And that is very uncomfortable and a little painful, at least for me.
So, while I don't actually mind a come-back effort couched as a charity event, I wish they had called their little pay-for-play group something else.
XO
WD
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 24, 2013 12:34:01 GMT -5
dabook, as Whiskey notes I think there is a legitimate other side to this. I'm copying a response I posted on the pledge thread, I'm happy to hear your specific response to it.
hoodrat, I totally agree with everything you said. It's great that the band is modernizing, reaching out to the fanbase, etc. And I'm as stoked as everyone else that we're coming up on a big year for the band where we'll all get to experience the covers EP, announcement of a new record, promo push, and tons of shows. I'm also not opposed to THS getting a cut of our pledges, since they are providing a commodity (whether it be a new EP, or a private performance) and it has become increasingly difficult for bands to make money off of record sales. And most importantly I am all for the progression of the band into a new age and not being nostalgic about the past (e.g. Franz's departure, or Tad's drunken antics on stage).
Having said this, I think full disclosure is important. If this truly is all in the name of reaching out to the fans and remembering jerseymike (as Craig and Tad seem to indicate in their Pledge video), shouldn't 100% of the proceeds go to K + L? If not, that's fine, but then I would think it's a weak on their part to center the advertising for the Pledge around Mike's death, especially given the fact that they're asking for $150 for Tad to cut someone's hair.
|
|
|
|
Post by doctoracula on Nov 24, 2013 12:54:04 GMT -5
2. To some of us from the beginning or core of the Unified Scene, this feels like they are trying to monetize our organic love and joy and friendship. To commodify something that is free. And that is very uncomfortable and a little painful, at least for me. YES, THIS. that's, more than anything, what makes this feel a little gross to me. i'm happy to support the band and the cause, but this comment nails it. also, some of those incentives are unbearably corny. |
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 13:22:18 GMT -5
Lets remember this is NOT a chicken/Egg scenario. The Hold Steady came first and asked us to the prom. We could have said no and some of us didn't....some of us even went "steady". I miss the old days...really...a lot. But I miss The Good Old Grateful Dead too. I still go see Phil Lesh and Friends, but its not the same. The scene changes. Life moves on. Shit happens.
What Finn and Koob are doing is really cool. I don't think its a kick start for them because its gonna be the SAME people who would buy their album or t shirt or mug or poster anyway. They could go ahead and release Lifter Puller studio demos if it was a money grab. I thinks its a real nice way to help someone out and to get some cool music out there for the fans. The EP is all covers isn't it? And if half or 1 quarter of the money goes to Mikes kids and the rest goers to a new album, that's all good. Mike's kids get money they never would have had and we get music that we never would have had they not done this. Lets face it...they are not blowing up the charts....they need money to make records...this is a creative and generous solution. Me, I never got a Unified shirt....cause when you start joining things rules happen and feelings get hurt and you may not get your number. But yeah there was a scene, and it still exists....in the music. Which is why they hit their goal in one fucking day. So I say bring it on....I pay 3 bucks a day for starbucks coffee....I can chip in a little for the next record.
And so we are all clear...these are just my feelings. I KNOW youre a good bunch of people, so I am not arguing with you. Its your deal too. Its a unified scene.
|
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 13:26:54 GMT -5
and the full disclosure thing.....my grandpa used to drive me to school sometimes, and we'd drive down the Bowery...and he'd give money to bums at the stoplight. His brother was a bum (this was before homeless became en vogue) and I would ask him "Why do you do that? They are just gonna buy whiskey and that's bad for them" and he said to me "Yeah, but for a minute they'll feel good and so will I".
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 24, 2013 14:03:36 GMT -5
and the full disclosure thing.....my grandpa used to drive me to school sometimes, and we'd drive down the Bowery...and he'd give money to bums at the stoplight. His brother was a bum (this was before homeless became en vogue) and I would ask him "Why do you do that? They are just gonna buy whiskey and that's bad for them" and he said to me "Yeah, but for a minute they'll feel good and so will I". So... us pledging money to THS and your grandpa giving money to a homeless dude is analogous in what way, exactly? |
|
|
|
Post by doctoracula on Nov 24, 2013 14:27:25 GMT -5
asking for money for a non-specific purpose?
again, i'm happy to support the band and this cause etc etc. at $15 for the 12" i'm just thinking of this as a preorder. but i don't see a huge difference between most crowdfunding efforts and begging.
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 24, 2013 14:50:49 GMT -5
Yeah that's my point. At least with the pledge we are receiving something tangible in return. Look I'm not saying I oppose the pledge project, I just think it's kinda weak for the band to make the entire thing about Jersey Mike and then not indicate how much of our money goes to his family. It's not even that my decision to pledge or not would be affected by this info, because it wouldn't, but I think it would've made the whole ordeal rest a little easier with me. Anyway the bottom line is that I'm really glad the goal was reached and that people are STILL pledging (it's over 130% right now).
|
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 15:10:55 GMT -5
and the full disclosure thing.....my grandpa used to drive me to school sometimes, and we'd drive down the Bowery...and he'd give money to bums at the stoplight. His brother was a bum (this was before homeless became en vogue) and I would ask him "Why do you do that? They are just gonna buy whiskey and that's bad for them" and he said to me "Yeah, but for a minute they'll feel good and so will I". So... us pledging money to THS and your grandpa giving money to a homeless dude is analogous in what way, exactly? Its your money when its in your hands. When its in theirs its theirs to do what they want with it. What they are doing is generous. If you dont want to participate, dont give money to the bums. If you do, its gone, whiskey is drunk and feel good about life. Things will work out. Being critical of Tad selling a haircut is just silly, as is the offer , hich is what it was meant to be. How many of us have an extra 15 K to have THS play at our house? Not me....but for some reason thats NOT silly. Just roll with it man, pledge or dont pledge but dont be critical of a nice gesture cause its not nice enough for you. |
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 15:12:48 GMT -5
and would it make any difference if they said 2% is going to Jersey Mike's kids and we are keeping the rest to make a record? NO....because thats two percent Mike's kids dont have today.
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 24, 2013 15:20:33 GMT -5
and would it make any difference if they said 2% is going to Jersey Mike's kids and we are keeping the rest to make a record? NO....because thats two percent Mike's kids dont have today. I respect your opinion but we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. For me, it would make a difference because of how much they emphasized Mike's death in the pledge write-up and video. In the extreme, what if they only donated .01% to the Foundation? Surely you would have a problem with that, given the emphasis I mention in the previous sentence. Of course it's unlikely the percentage is that small, but I think that example points out that there is some lower limit that would tick most of us off. For that reason, it's totally fair to inquire about it since nobody deserves to be misled about where their money is going, even if we're wholeheartedly behind doing what we can to help both the band and Mike's family. I'm not suggesting the band is misleading us, I'm just saying that I feel the fans deserve full disclosure. Also for the record, $15K for the electric house show seems quite reasonable to me because it seems like a decent estimate of what bands of this level of popularity typically get paid up front to play gigs (at least that's my understanding of the economics of the situation, based on chatting with a friend who booked THS for a show back in 2009). Finally I really didn't mean for this to turn into a huge issue. This is a net positive for everyone involved and I'm pretty damn thrilled the band reached out to its fanbase while helping out Mike's family in the process. A little more disclosure would've been cool but let's not lose sight of all the good that's come out of this. |
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 15:34:13 GMT -5
the only thing that really makes a difference to me is the music.
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 24, 2013 15:35:05 GMT -5
the only thing that really makes a difference to me is the music. I think we can agree to agree on that. |
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 18:22:31 GMT -5
I jsut think the anniversary concert should be ta Northsix where it all started....and I can walk to.
|
|
timdvm
Cityscape Skin
Posts: 45
|
Post by timdvm on Nov 24, 2013 20:21:52 GMT -5
1. How much are they giving to the great cause? Every charity event should disclose this and usually does unless it's unflattering. 2. To some of us from the beginning or core of the Unified Scene, this feels like they are trying to monetize our organic love and joy and friendship. To commodify something that is free. And that is very uncomfortable and a little painful, at least for me. So, while I don't actually mind a come-back effort couched as a charity event, I wish they had called their little pay-for-play group something else. XO WD I'm a little late to the show, but I gotta agree with WD. The whole thing feels "less than fresh" to me. Tim |
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 20:33:46 GMT -5
Her parents named her Halleluiah
The kids they called her Holly
And if she scared you then she's sorry
She's been stranded at these parties
These parties they start lovely
But they get druggy and they get ugly and they get bloody
|
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 20:53:27 GMT -5
I always like to think that the Unified Scene or what it was or stood for or represented, was spawned like a cosmic blast from that one line "I used to dream about a unified scene" and from thereon it was. I dont think of it as belonging to anyone. It makes me think think of that line by Margaret Atwood — 'I would like to be the air that inhabits you for a moment only. I would like to be that unnoticed and that necessary.'. Anyway...enough of this. Mty pledge is in...lets hear some sweet soul music.
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 24, 2013 21:38:37 GMT -5
1. How much are they giving to the great cause? Every charity event should disclose this and usually does unless it's unflattering. 2. To some of us from the beginning or core of the Unified Scene, this feels like they are trying to monetize our organic love and joy and friendship. To commodify something that is free. And that is very uncomfortable and a little painful, at least for me. So, while I don't actually mind a come-back effort couched as a charity event, I wish they had called their little pay-for-play group something else. XO WD I'm a little late to the show, but I gotta agree with WD. The whole thing feels "less than fresh" to me. Tim It's also funny how they talk about how their band is all about being inclusive literally seconds before announcing what is ostensibly a membership fee for exclusive, members-only content. It just looks silly. I'm all for the concept, but they botched the message/execution IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by WhiskeyDaisy on Nov 24, 2013 21:44:43 GMT -5
dabook: I think the disconnect here may be that while your arguments (related to the Unified Scene and fundraising) adhere to the letter of the law, so to speak, they sort of miss the spirit. I'm more of a spirit of the law sort of person.
XO
WD
|
|
dabook
True Scene Leader
Posts: 520
|
Post by dabook on Nov 24, 2013 22:03:45 GMT -5
Thats strange because I am not a Unified Scene member, but I definitely get the spirit of the scene. I bet Mike's kids wont give a shit either way.
|
|
|
|
Post by WhiskeyDaisy on Nov 24, 2013 22:41:32 GMT -5
Wow. There are no Unified Scene "members." The shirts were just so we could identify each other when we traveled to see the band because "I'll be wearing a red shirt" doesn't really work. Spirit. Joy. Love. High fives. Hugs. Cheers. Sing along songs are always better when there is someone to sing along with.
XO
WD
|
|
|
|
Post by gettinincredible on Nov 25, 2013 3:29:29 GMT -5
Man, who gives a shit? If you don't like it, don't pay, and if you still want to donate to the fund, there's someone you can contact in the other thread to do so. The handful of dedicated fans on this forum with their self-made t-shirts are not enough to keep the band afloat. They needed to raise money and they did it in a fun way, and a large portion of it is certainly going to the The Children.
|
|
|
|
Post by dealwiththedealers on Nov 25, 2013 4:15:17 GMT -5
Whatever, this is getting pointless. As I said, I'm more than happy to pay and think the pledge idea is a cool one, I just think that the presentation was botched. It is possible to constructively criticize the band for something and still love the fuck out of/support them.
|
|
stringer
Has Status
Seein' my duty clear.
Posts: 2,702
|
Post by stringer on Nov 25, 2013 6:42:57 GMT -5
I think that this bickering in general is bringing a sour taste to the whole thing.
Yes, I would like to know exactly how much money is going to the kids. Yes, I will be pledging anyway.
Apparently, we're all The Hold Steady. And we're all the Unified Scene. I don't think anyone can deny that Mike certainly was. I can't say that I knew Mike personally. I can't say that I knew him all to well. What I can say though is that his passing hurt me just as if I had. And if any of us were in trouble, I'm sure he would help in a heartbeat.
I'd like to think that now the goal has been reached, anything extra raised could be added to the fund for K+L.
But we're gonna buy this record anyway, and we're gonna help K+L anyway, right? So it makes sense to me that I pledge for this, knowing that I'm buying the record and helping the kids.. But then make a donation to K+L privately too. That way, I know how much I've donated, and then I also know that I've sent a little extra with my pledge.
We are all here for the same reason; we have put our faith in this band for how many years now? Their songs are our soundtracks. We place them alongside important, beautiful or awful times in our lives.
And with that intimacy, there should always be trust.
I love this band. You love this band. I'm gonna trust that this is legitimate. And I'm gonna see you at the show, and buy you a beer. Because that is what we do.
Love you guys.
|
|
