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Post by lilhan on Feb 15, 2009 9:19:35 GMT -5
i'm surprised you didn't tut i'dv'e thrown in a tut. also, nelson algren people!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2009 17:29:32 GMT -5
hey feel free to re-educate me... In Memoriam is good but from that period i prefer Coleridge and Blake (oh god Blake is so awesome)
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vagabondking
Clever Kid
I'll watch over the bones in your back like the stations of the cross
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Post by vagabondking on Feb 15, 2009 18:00:15 GMT -5
The very fact that my favorite band inspires a reading list thread on the fansite gives me hope in humanity.
Apparently my laptop became British suddenly, as it's demanding a "u" in favorite. Dadgum redcoats...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2009 18:37:35 GMT -5
man i did an email interview with John Darnielle and i asked him for influences and he listed a bunch of authors i'd never heard of and i felt dumb luckily his latest album talked about the sort of turn of the century pulp trash i love so i felt smart one of my creative writing tutors wrote a book that crosses On The Road over with the Cthluhu mythos. i'm not sure if its in print oh and The Church just did a soundtrack to a Jeff Vandermeer novel
anyway back to THS where should i start with Cassavettes movies? i don't think my Ebert's Home Video Guide has a director's index
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 20, 2009 0:07:27 GMT -5
yea i started that thread on the old board, let me see if i can remember
old testament new testament on the road-kerouac jon berryman lolita-nabokov william butler yeats william blake tennyson nelson algren probably missing a few but these are the ones i remember them referencing in THS songs, someone on the old thread mentioned that fiestas and fiascos was loosely based on The Crying of Lot 49.
another good one would be songs they mention
born to run born to lose she's got legs ain't too proud to beg fairytale of new york wade into the water one tin soldier dyer maker houses of the holy dancin days
plenty others i'm sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 0:10:27 GMT -5
yeah i've got almost all those songs and while listening to more Zep isn't going to hurt my life at all it ain't going to improve my mind gotta relisten to Fiastas and Fiascos... love me some Pynchon. i remember reading Crying of Lot 49 and thinking it represented the only sensible way of looking at the world, full of hidden symbols and connections. i get that in THS... explains why i go for a bit of an urban fantasy/horror interpretation to it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 0:11:48 GMT -5
yeah i've got almost all those songs and while listening to more Zep isn't going to hurt my life at all it ain't going to improve my mind it might tho but yeah the Certain Songs board comps were great gotta relisten to Fiastas and Fiascos... love me some Pynchon. i remember reading Crying of Lot 49 and thinking it represented the only sensible way of looking at the world, full of hidden symbols and connections. i get that in THS... explains why i go for a bit of an urban fantasy/horror interpretation to it
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 20, 2009 0:12:49 GMT -5
love me some too, obviously i guess.
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Post by hoodrat on Feb 20, 2009 7:29:42 GMT -5
where does a reader start with nelson algren, y'all?
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 21, 2009 16:02:10 GMT -5
Depends on how thorough you want to be, you could start at the beginning and work your way through, first book is i believe called Somebody in Boots. Or you could go straight to the one he's most well known for, Man with The Golden Arm and Chicago, City on the Make.
Incidentally if you dig Craig's Lyrics and like to read i can suggest a few authors he doesn't mention but that are in a similar vein
Don Delillo-Read everything, start with White Noise Richard Powers-Read Gold Bug Variations, Prisoner's Dilemna David Foster Wallace-Read Infinite Jest when you have two months to kill Paul Auster-Read everything Roberto Bolano-Read Savage Detectives. Helen DeWitt-Read The Last Samurai Ken Kesey-Read Sometimes a Great Notion. Mark Leyner-Read My cousin, My Gastroenterologist, then read the rest if you like.
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Mahoney
True Scene Leader
"you don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows"
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Post by Mahoney on Feb 21, 2009 16:06:37 GMT -5
where's the lolita reference? i never read it but i'm curious. i heard infinite jest was written by like a 20 year old. maybe it was a different book, but i think that's the one.
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Post by Elwoodii on Feb 21, 2009 16:12:41 GMT -5
"she said i won't be much for all this humbert humbert stuff." - Hornets Hornets
Humbert was the main character in Nabokov's Lolita. Apparently, I've never read it either.
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 21, 2009 16:31:34 GMT -5
where's the lolita reference? i never read it but i'm curious. i heard infinite jest was written by like a 20 year old. maybe it was a different book, but i think that's the one. Na, he wrote it when he was 34 years old.
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duende
Cityscape Skin
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Post by duende on Feb 21, 2009 16:40:29 GMT -5
A Brief Interview with Craig Finn of The Hold Steady Interview and preceding notes by Alex Ruskell
The arc of John Berryman's life was made for a tragic song. In 1926, when John was eight, his father committed suicide with a shotgun while standing outside John's bedroom window after a land deal went bad. Within months, his mother had married her lover, who had been their landlord while his father was alive, and moved the family from Tampa, Florida to New York City. There she gave young John Smith his new last name, Berryman. John suffered from anxiety, insomnia, hypochondria, and depression, culminating in a suicide attempt in 1931. The next year he enrolled at Columbia. At Columbia Mark Van Doren took him under his wing, and John began publishing poems in both The Columbia Review and The Nation. He studied two years at Cambridge University in England, and then taught at Wayne University (later Wayne State University). He drank heavily, womanized, and antagonized many of those around him, while at the same time becoming friends with writers such as Randall Jarrell and Adrienne Rich.
He eventually ended up at The University of Iowa Writers' Workshop, where he was later fired after being arrested for drunkenly defecating on his landlord's porch. At that point, he called his friend Allen Tate, who secured him a post at the University of Minnesota. His poem "Homage to Mistress Bradstreet" was published in the Parisian Review and was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize in 1956.
The Dream Songs, a long poem in 385 parts and his most famous work, was written in his new home of Minneapolis, and later captured Berryman the Pulitzer Prize. In his acceptance speech, he told the assembled crowd "I set up The Dream Songs as hostile to every visible tendency in both American and English poetry." Haunted by depression and alcoholism, he continued to live and work in Minneapolis until one day in 1972 when he waved to the assembled crowd and threw himself from the Washington Avenue Bridge. He was 57.
Reflecting their Minneapolis roots, The Hold Steady's "Stuck Between Stations" references Berryman's sad biography with the lines:
The Devil and John Berryman took a walk together / They ended up on Washington talking to the river / He said "I surround myself with doctors and deep thinkers but big heads and soft bodies make for lousy lovers" / There was that night that we thought John Berryman could fly / But he didn't so he died / She said "You're pretty good with words but words won't save your life" and they didn't so he died / He was drunk and exhausted but he was critically acclaimed and respected."
Thus ending with the image of the song's protagonist and others floating down the Mississippi River. In the song's video, the band's bass player, Galen Polivka, is reading a copy of The Dream Songs. Much like the protagonist of a Hold Steady song, Henry, the protagonist of The Dream Songs, is haunted, libidinous, prone to substance abuse, and acutely aware of himself and the world's impact upon his psyche. He also finds himself explaining his mind and motives to Friend, much like a Hold Steady song seems to be explaining itself to the unknown listener, the unnamed "you" who is either criticized, plagued, harangued, or loved.
Similar to Berryman, it is easy to believe that Craig Finn, the Hold Steady's lyricist and frontman, is being completely autobiographical within the band's songs. And like all good writers, this was a misconception Berryman often faced, arguing in his note to The Dream Songs' final edition that "Henry is not the poet, not me... [he is] an imaginary character."
Your songs tend to tell stories that revolve around a few repeating images and themes (youth, drug use, the Mississippi River, Minneapolis, going to music shows)—what compels you to keep returning to them? I think it's the way that I have experienced our world. A lot of my songs are, at their heart, about wonder. Coming up in Minneapolis, these were my life, and were important to the way that I realized there was a world beyond my suburb and school.
As a question that gets asked to authors constantly, how autobiographical are your songs (e.g., did you really get punctured under the train bridge)? I never got punctured, but I have been robbed. My songs are about the kinds of people I was around, especially at age 16-23. Basically, once I got a driver's license, I immediately started going towards bad decisions. The driver's license is a huge step in the lives of the young suburban. Mobility and freedom are often seen holding hands, if not downright screwing.
On some songs where I have heard several different versions, you change the lyrics, and in concert, you often sing away from the microphone. Are the precise words in the songs important? They aren't totally important. I think my lyrics are best when they are most conversational, and I try to get away from reading or reciting lyrics. A good storyteller will make slightly different word choices each time. I am interested in a natural delivery. I think the best public speakers are comfortable following an outline, rather than reading something verbatim.
What is your interest in John Berryman? It mainly has to do with his biography—alcoholism, religious experiences, and suicide. The latter of which occurred in my hometown. I read an article about him and got interested and then explored his writing. But it was really the fact that he was my hometown's most famous suicide that made him so interesting to me.
Who are your favorite authors, and why? Historically, Kerouac due to his rhythm, but also the way he is able to highlight unique American experiences. I very much admire Phillip Roth's ability to unravel a story. Also, I am in awe of the humorous tone achieved at times by Richard Russo and Larry McMurtry.
Are there any lyricists you really admire, emulate? Obviously Dylan and Springsteen. Also Patterson Hood and Mike Cooley from the Drive by Truckers. John Darnielle from the Mountain Goats. John Samson from the Weakerthans. Blake Schwartzenbach from Jawbreaker/Jets to Brazil. Paddy Costello from Dillinger Four. There are a lot that I can't think of. I still listen to a lot of new music. What lines just kill you? (E.g., a couple of mine are "I've got a hurricane in my pocket, but no one will believe me." — Drivin' n' Cryin'; and "I feel like a stray from your cannonball days."—Ryan Adams.) My all-time favorite: "Fingernails and cigarettes—a lousy dinner" —The Replacements.
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duende
Cityscape Skin
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Post by duende on Feb 21, 2009 16:40:40 GMT -5
Ahead of the release of thier new album, 'Stay Positive' on July 14th, ClashMusic talked to frontman Craig Finn about his reading habits, favourite authors and how it all influences his songwriting. What's your favourite book and why?
Well, my favourite book is... I guess one of the books I keep going back to is a book that shares my name; 'The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn'. It was always around the house when I was a kid, there was a lot of humour. It was funny at times with some real truths about equality and the slavery issue of the time. I've read it a several different times in my life and always enjoyed it.
Do you identify with Huck Finn?
Well, I'm not sure. Huck Finn's a little wilder than I am. You know, even though it's set in a different time, you can sorta relate to some of those episodes.
Are there particular authors you're a fan of?
I really like Philip Roth, I've read a lot of his books. Larry McMurtry, I really like. John Updike, I've read all of those and recently, Richard Russo. Who I think has written three or four books and I've think I've read them all, those are great. John Goodwin, he's another one I like a lot
Do your literary influences have a direct impact on your songwriting?
I think they do but not like super directly. You know you pick up words or phrases that stick with you. I wouldn't say I read this book and wrote this song, but you know, I think if you're a writer you're probably helped as much by reading as by writing
What are you reading at the moment?
I'm reading 'The Book of Common Prayer' by John Goodwin and also 'Tender is the Night' by F Scott Fitzgerald.
What was the first text you remember reading as a child?
Jeez, I remember 'The Outsiders', the S.E. Hinton book that was later made into a movie. That was a big book. All those novels that were kinda for kids but had that kind of exciting and somewhat rebellious air to them but I remember being enraptured by those books.
What's your take on libraries? Some people have said they were a lifeline for them as kids.
Yeah, when I was a kid we'd always go to the library on a Saturday and check out books and my parents pushed that on me. Growing up there were books around my house so I didn't feel that, you hear of people who were really connected to the world by books. I didn't have that much of a feeling but it was definitely part of my growing up.
How do you think literature acquires timelessness?
I guess it's that personal, the reaction by the audience but it has to live a little too you know. Something like 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Catcher in the Rye', something that resonates true and it's not that one time, something that people 50 years down the line can read it and feel something.
Do you read book reviews? How do you find find new books?
I read, like, The Sunday Times but mainly I just go into book stores and just browse around, picking things up, I've got plenty of time to read. I can afford to take chances. It's usually really people telling me, looking at book stores, recommendations, things like that.
Would you ever re-read the same book?
Yeah, every once in a while I reread 'On the Road', the Kerouac book, and it really resulted in the last record 'Boys and Girls in America'. That may be an example of one time when a book really influenced me. The last record came off a quote by Kerouac in that novel, 'Boys and girls in America, such a sad time together'.
Are there certain qualities that you look for which will draw you to a book?
Well, you know, you read the back, it seems like there's a decent plot or there's something interesting and you're likely to give it a try.
Do you read one book at a time or more than one?
I do and I always misplace them, I put them down and pick another one up. I used to be really good about reading them all the way through, now I've always got a couple of things going on. It's cause I move around so much now and personally I lose books quite often. I usually have one with me, travel around with them then I lose them.
At home do you have an ever expanding library or do you read a book and pass it on?
I always pass them on, me and my girlfriend share them.
That's the sign of a great book, one you want your friends to read?
Yeah, yeah cause I never really buy nice books, I always buy used books. They're better served if you pass them on.
Finally, are any books you'd recommend to our readers?
Yeah, there's a thing I've recommended to a lot of people, 'Straight Man' by Richard Russo. I think it's a fantastic novel but traditionally my other two books I recommend to a lot of people are 'All My Friends are Going to be Strangers' which is a Larry McMurtry book, which is about writing, or about a young writer anyway. Then another book called 'The Miracle Life of Edgar Mint', which I've given a lot of people, by a guy named Brady Udall. I don't know much about him but he wrote this one book that was given to me as a gift and I really enjoyed it.
The books you've mentioned fit in with the world presented in The Hold Steady's songs. Are you drawn more to books relating to your world and experience?
Yeah, I guess I am, you know, drawn to things that give you a way of looking at things that are already in your life. I've never really been able to read science fiction, or fantasy or anything like that.
AD: Your lyrics are central to the group’s sound. When you’re writing, do you bring in a lyric and have the guys wrap something around it, or vice versa? CF: No, I write a little bit every day in these books I keep, and then one of the guys will come in with an idea – Franz especially – and they’ll jam it out, work on a couple of parts, and I’ll look through my books and try to figure out what’s the best thing to say. A lot of it depends on the meter; I talk along with them as they’re riffing it out, and I figure out what I want to say. Then I pull from my books and edit it a little bit, so it fits the song. So it’s really music, then lyrics, then we shape it from there. AD: So you’re pretty much always writing. CF: Yeah, absolutely. I try to. It’s a good way to keep the creative energy going, so I try to write a little bit every day. I’ll write down observations, things I see that I think are funny.
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Post by pubmonkey on Feb 21, 2009 17:56:18 GMT -5
Nelson Algren is the most under-read and under appreciated writer in american lit. the man is a fucking master, the end of The Man with the Golden Arm will make you cry, pretty much read all his work a few times through, Somebody in Boots is hard to come by, published in 1935 and might be out of print, i'd start with Never Come Morning and his short stories and then TMWTGA, no matter where you start the guy is fucking brilliant... as far as Bukowski goes i've maybe outgrown him a bit but the guy still can kick ass, he just tends to repeat himself alot especially in his poetry, at last count i'd read 57 books by or about Bukowski, even have some of his rare chapbooks, if anyone wants to know where to start with Buk let men know.
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 21, 2009 19:17:24 GMT -5
wow, i love that he mentions Straight Man by Richard Russo, probably easily the funniest book i've ever read. So good. HIs other books, Empire Falls, Nobody's Fool, etc, are also quite good but nearly as funny as Straight Man.
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Mahoney
True Scene Leader
"you don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows"
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Post by Mahoney on Feb 21, 2009 19:52:32 GMT -5
tyslothrop as in gravity's rainbow? i think that was his name right? man, that book was tough, i gave up, too many characters, someday i'll go back and read with a little more patience.
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 21, 2009 21:48:43 GMT -5
indeed. It's certainly challenging, a companion guide might help. Twenty pages at a time would be my suggestion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 22:11:39 GMT -5
10 points to whoever gets what author my name comes from....
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Post by pubmonkey on Feb 22, 2009 9:27:28 GMT -5
10 points to whoever gets what author my name comes from.... is it a short story by Jorge Luis Borges?
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Post by tyslothrop on Feb 22, 2009 17:45:38 GMT -5
yup.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 17:49:08 GMT -5
damn straight
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Post by theblondette on Feb 22, 2009 19:41:20 GMT -5
People should read Lolita. It's a beautiful book.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 19:50:54 GMT -5
"Yeah, I guess I am, you know, drawn to things that give you a way of looking at things that are already in your life. I've never really been able to read science fiction, or fantasy or anything like that."
as much as i love that interview sci-fi/fantasy can inform how you look at your life... it makes everything more mythical and mystical odd, 'cause again i hear THS as a bit of urban fantasy but maybe i should read more real books
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