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Post by theothermatt on May 23, 2022 11:49:13 GMT -5
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Post by kayfaberaven on May 23, 2022 13:41:34 GMT -5
Hey, it's theothermatt from Defector.com! (This is thelittlebulldog from Defector.com).
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Post by lukefrombl on May 23, 2022 14:44:52 GMT -5
I too understand why people don't like the album. It's kinda slow, minimal, the sound is (with a couple of exceptions) inside a quite narrow frame. For everyone finding Craig through Hold Steady, and maybe even preferring Hold Steady at its most joyous, it's no wonder how this album can feel a little bleak. I came back to say that I've listened to the album three more times and I like it even less. I think you nailed it here, especially the narrow scope of the record. It all feels the same and pretty unambitious, and bleak, to me. Hard to find anything to get excited about. Then again, that's why art is subjective and I'm glad there's other people out there that like it so much.
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Post by muzzleofbees on May 23, 2022 14:59:03 GMT -5
I too understand why people don't like the album. It's kinda slow, minimal, the sound is (with a couple of exceptions) inside a quite narrow frame. For everyone finding Craig through Hold Steady, and maybe even preferring Hold Steady at its most joyous, it's no wonder how this album can feel a little bleak. I came back to say that I've listened to the album three more times and I like it even less. I think you nailed it here, especially the narrow scope of the record. It all feels the same and pretty unambitious, and bleak, to me. Hard to find anything to get excited about. Then again, that's why art is subjective and I'm glad there's other people out there that like it so much. I think everyone are 100% entitled to their own view on this album, but I find it hard to hear it as "unambitious". Like, in what way? I guess assesing Craig's ambition (or lack of thereof) are subjective too, but still. As I said, I get that people don't like it. I even understand it, the way the album are structured and how it sounds. To me it souds really ambitious, though, much in the same way I think Open Door Policy sounds ambitious. There's huge musical differences between the two albums, but both push the traditional or expected sound in a new direction, tweaking and updating the core formula, without ever letting go of the emotional undercurrent. I'm not in the business of telling people how they should feel about a work of art, but I don't think there's any lack of ambition here.
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robs
Hoodrat
Posts: 297
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Post by robs on May 24, 2022 4:01:43 GMT -5
I haven't thought deeply about this (and I appreciate that the majority of THS songs are not written by CF), but is there a case of a bigger difference (musically) between a band and solo "offshoot"?
What keeps me coming back is stories as much as the music. I happen to like ALOR musically quite a lot, but I suspect it will settle in my personal ranking below WAWTST and FITF. I don't think it holds a candle to INANW for bleakness!!
My view is that Craig's solo career as a whole has been very ambitious, in the UK building up from the odd solo show for FITF, a Living Room "tour" for WAWTST, to a full band for INANW. As I said above, I'm wondering if the band will be upgraded again this time around given the amount of strings and backing vocals on ALOR.
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Post by muzzleofbees on May 24, 2022 4:52:28 GMT -5
It's been a few years since a Pitchfork rating had some sort of major impact, but it's still nice to see them stamp the review with an 8.0. The review is pretty good too. pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/craig-finn-a-legacy-of-rentals/I had to check back, and this is what the history looks like: Clear Heart Full Eyes: 6.0 Faith In The Future: 6.3 We All Want The Same Things: 7.8 I Need A New War: 8.0 All These Perfect Crosses: 7.3
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Post by theothermatt on May 24, 2022 11:39:56 GMT -5
Hey, it's theothermatt from Defector.com! (This is thelittlebulldog from Defector.com). don't dox me!!
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Post by skepticatfirst on May 24, 2022 22:42:13 GMT -5
Never Any Horses has been running through my head the last couple of days, so I finally spent some time with it again this morning. I'm not the best person to talk about the musical qualities of particular songs, but that's where the action seems to be on ALoR, so I'll give it a shot (nobody's too fussed about the lyrics for obvious reasons).
What was stuck in my head about NAH was that low, hypnotic, driving sound that kind of makes each musical phrase overlap into the next without stopping. I felt like I'd heard other songs that do this kind of thing --- amplifying the bass line and harmonies to the point that they consistently overpower the melody; for whatever reason, the other examples that came up to my musically illiterate brain were Louisiana Train Wreck by Pere Ubu and Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm by the Crash Test Dummies, neither one a great comparison, but that's what I was fumbling around with.
Then I played NAH again this morning, and realized that the opening notes remind me of Guns n Roses' cover of Knockin on Heaven's Door, and that that cover is one of those songs too --- an over-the-top indulgence of the harmonies, Axl just letting it rip.
NAH is way more muted than any of those songs (I think the "oo ... oo" background singers are there to give it just the bare minimum of needed dimension), but I still like the direction of the comparison, especially the GnR one. All of which is to say, I do think it's ambitious. I'd call it good, even; it's just not something I'm fired up about.
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Post by muzzleofbees on May 25, 2022 0:23:24 GMT -5
What was stuck in my head about NAH was that low, hypnotic, driving sound that kind of makes each musical phrase overlap into the next without stopping. I felt like I'd heard other songs that do this kind of thing --- amplifying the bass line and harmonies to the point that they consistently overpower the melody; for whatever reason, the other examples that came up to my musically illiterate brain were Louisiana Train Wreck by Pere Ubu and Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm by the Crash Test Dummies, neither one a great comparison, but that's what I was fumbling around with. Then I played NAH again this morning, and realized that the opening notes remind me of Guns n Roses' cover of Knockin on Heaven's Door, and that that cover is one of those songs too --- an over-the-top indulgence of the harmonies, Axl just letting it rip. NAH is way more muted than any of those songs (I think the "oo ... oo" background singers are there to give it just the bare minimum of needed dimension), but I still like the direction of the comparison, especially the GnR one. All of which is to say, I do think it's ambitious. I'd call it good, even; it's just not something I'm fired up about. I’ve noticed the Knockin’ thing too! It’s been floating in the back of my mind since the first time I heard it, and now it was brought back. There’s also a lot of similarities with Roman Guitars, both sound wise (adjusted for the general differences between FITF and ALOR) and in the melody. What strikes me about Never Any Horses are two things: How eerie and effective the «shoot shoot» backing vocals really are (possible nod to Happiness Is A Warm Gun too), and the way the drums are applied. Just like in This Is What It Looks Like, there’s a steady beat at the core, then these waves of echoed drums wash over them. I really like it, and it builds subtle drama and tension in otherwise pretty muted songs.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 2:38:10 GMT -5
That Defector article is amazing, thanks for writing it. One I’ll reread for a long time.
The Amarillo Kid - does anyone else think that the ‘Deanna’ in this song is a reference to the Nick Cave song? Craig’s mentioned him in interviews a bunch, and put two of his songs on the inspiration playlist for this album. But it’s possible that living in Melbourne has poisoned my brain with this stuff.
This is another album that I can’t be objective about. Break From the Barrage and Birthdays - and the whole themes of the album Craig has talked about in interviews, about being stuck in your late 30s, the slipperiness of memory, even little things like watching superhero matinees on your days off work, feel so personal that it’s impossible to be objective.
I am a bit over all the songs being about small time drug dealers, but there’s so much grace in the small sad stories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 2:42:29 GMT -5
They wish for new inventions/ to make this life more easy” + “He dreams of (...) machines that cleans the streets”: This is really a stretch, but last week I read a looong text about Mountain Goats, Palmcorder Yajna and We Shall All Be Healed. In the chorus of that song, the addict dream of a sterile room with a machine that’s able to produce infinite amounts of clean drugs. It’s a longing away from the endless hunt for money, for drugs, and everything that comes with it. And I thought about those lines and that image when I read these lines too. I thought of Palmcorder Yajna with that lyric too, especially since Craig just re-affirmed his influence from The Mountain Goats in the Twitter Q&A. Can you link the article? I think I know which one it is, but there’s a few TMG blogs floating around and that’s my favourite song of theirs.
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Post by muzzleofbees on May 25, 2022 4:42:10 GMT -5
They wish for new inventions/ to make this life more easy” + “He dreams of (...) machines that cleans the streets”: This is really a stretch, but last week I read a looong text about Mountain Goats, Palmcorder Yajna and We Shall All Be Healed. In the chorus of that song, the addict dream of a sterile room with a machine that’s able to produce infinite amounts of clean drugs. It’s a longing away from the endless hunt for money, for drugs, and everything that comes with it. And I thought about those lines and that image when I read these lines too. I thought of Palmcorder Yajna with that lyric too, especially since Craig just re-affirmed his influence from The Mountain Goats in the Twitter Q&A. Can you link the article? I think I know which one it is, but there’s a few TMG blogs floating around and that’s my favourite song of theirs. Nice to hear I wasn't the only one making that connection! Here's the article - everyone should consider to order his book too: thirtyyearslater.substack.com/p/2003-palmcorder-yajna?s=r#detailsI've been into Mountain Goats for 20 years now, and occasionally spent lot of time on his lyrics. But We Shall All Be Healed arrived at a weird time for me, and I never really connected to it. It was only a couple of years back I really got into it, and then I heard some similarities with Craig's work. It's not just the drug thing, but the way he brings back this scene from decades back, painting a full picture of drug abuse and desperation, but also the deep emotional bonds between the people involved in the scene. There's so much art about addiction and abuse that's not all that interesting, because it ends up as being so one-dimensional, in one way or another. What Darnielle and Craig does, is both turning the scope inwards, to focus on the hopes and dreams of the addict, making them human, while also getting close on the characters relations to each other, their love, care and cameradery. There's also a striking similiarties in the way the in general put emphasis on the past, rememberance, heritage and memory. I don't think I'm fully able to explain this, but I would recommend everyone to read the article on Palmcorder Yajna, and see if anything rings a bell.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2022 4:53:33 GMT -5
The connections between the two bands are very long, from John Darnielle listing Lifter Puller as his favourite band on his blog, to the joint New Yorker article about them, to Craig partly being inspired by the Alpha Couple to have recurring characters. I’m not sure if this direct link works, but Craig just talked about the shared themes last week on Twitter: (There’s also a weird digression about tecate in John’s new book, which I just started reading) Here’s the other TMG blog: allhail.substack.com/On the other hand, I wish Craig’s songwriting got half the attention John Darnielle’s does…
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Post by lukefrombl on May 25, 2022 14:40:05 GMT -5
I came back to say that I've listened to the album three more times and I like it even less. I think you nailed it here, especially the narrow scope of the record. It all feels the same and pretty unambitious, and bleak, to me. Hard to find anything to get excited about. Then again, that's why art is subjective and I'm glad there's other people out there that like it so much. I think everyone are 100% entitled to their own view on this album, but I find it hard to hear it as "unambitious". Like, in what way? I guess assesing Craig's ambition (or lack of thereof) are subjective too, but still. As I said, I get that people don't like it. I even understand it, the way the album are structured and how it sounds. To me it souds really ambitious, though, much in the same way I think Open Door Policy sounds ambitious. There's huge musical differences between the two albums, but both push the traditional or expected sound in a new direction, tweaking and updating the core formula, without ever letting go of the emotional undercurrent. I'm not in the business of telling people how they should feel about a work of art, but I don't think there's any lack of ambition here. Unambitious in the way that every song sounds exactly the same.
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Post by sequesteredinuk on May 30, 2022 5:45:41 GMT -5
I've listened enough to form a considered opinion now on the album, I'm about 15 spins in. It usually takes me about ten. I'd say that I'm a fan generally. It's done the old fashioned "grow on me" for sure.
The thing is if you don't cherry pick tracks or make your own playlist and do the conventional track 1 to track 10 listen it's harder I've found. I'm not really a fan of the first three songs so if making a listing they'd be #8, #9 & "#10 to start things off.
Messing with the settings and birthdays has been covered already, inbetween those two 'Amirillo Kid' sounded great when I heard Craig do it acoustically, but was one I was looking forward to hearing but even though There's a good story in there I find the music distracting to the point where it spoils the song somewhat.
The next seven tracks roll smoothly into each other for me though, I like all of them, understanding that I'm in a minority of one I even like the predominantly spoken 'Break.from the Barrage' much more than I enjoyed Craig's other two more celebrated spoken word songs.
The meat of the album, 'The year we fell behind', 'Due to depart ', 'Curtis and Shepard ', 'Never any Horses' 'Jessamime' (am I the only one who hears walk on the wild side in the intro to that on Curtis?🤔) and 'This is what it looks like ' all fantastic writing by our man. It's not something I take for granted, that's why I'm always enthused to hear new material.
I can understand why some don't dig it, the percussion is overused at times for me, the drum machine I can live without, but whatever any shortcomings musically there are is more than made up for by Craig's writing and delivery.
Can't wait for the shows to hear live. 👍👍
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I'M THAT GUY!
Sniffling Indie Kid
Heartbreak hurts, but you can dance it off.
Posts: 150
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Post by I'M THAT GUY! on Jun 3, 2022 6:55:08 GMT -5
Amarillo kid is such a good song, but I can’t make my brain stop correcting how he pronounces it.
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