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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 27, 2021 18:09:37 GMT -5
Certainly a fantastic track. I can't say that I have quite the same personal connection to it that both of you have mentioned, but musically it's always been great for all the reasons mentioned above.
I apologize for not being able to put it in a clearer thought, but I've always found that there are plenty of "moments" like that throughout their music that have always gotten to me—the warmth and fullness of the intro, I mean. The layering of certain sounds, guitar tones, effects, whatever it is, that always makes me wonder "how in the hell did they get that sound?" Presumably it's always been that second guitar, but still, gets me every time. Bloomington always did it for me too, as I said earlier, but especially MV. That little single tremolo guitar note that plays throughout nearly the entire song, but fits for every moment. There's this chord I always seem to focus on in the intro/other moments that, it almost makes me think I'm hearing phantom notes or something, I don't even know if I could pick out that exact note, even though it's just a simple G chord progression.
That warmth, in particular, is why I like the first album so much I think. Not that it's missing from later albums, but in much the same way it makes it a more generic indie rock album, there's something almost dreamy about those little moments here and there that I always get lost in.
I haven't spoken much about my overall ranking, I keep looking at it and making tweaks as the thread goes, but I will say It'd be hard to get ahead of Bloomington, Double Straps, and Sublet for me personally. Still, one of my favorites, and one I tend to show first-timers often.
quick little anecdote: I recall sharing a video of the band playing a few years back, and I typed up a little description and linked MV as an example track, talking about all of these unique qualities and mentioning much of what you both said. The only response at all on the thread was "They sound like a Dinosaur Jr cover band in that song."
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 28, 2021 1:41:43 GMT -5
That gives you an idea; I like it a lot. Way up at #4 on my list. Wow, that was surprising! Still, I get that this is a song someone easily could love and adore more than I do. I totally agree about that warmth thing - that's maybe the most precise word to describe the sound, especially in comparison to the rest of the album (or even catalog). I think I should post a video of the solo version here, cause it's really beautiful: And what the hell, while we're on it, I'll repost my own version too. If there's one thread where it might belong, it should be this one. Scroll down to the comments, one of them made me really happy, hah.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 28, 2021 1:44:05 GMT -5
#25: THE CANDY MACHINE AND THE GIRLFRIEND
Man, I have a soft spot for Entertainment And Arts. It’s crept up on me over a span of several years, and I’ve come to love it as a release, as a singular piece of art. And it’s increasingly amusing to me to think about how they just put out this batch of songs as an EP, in between two albums, and at the same time they scrapped amazing songs like The Langelos, Pirate And The Penpal, Mick’s Tape and 11th Avenue Freezeout. I guess this is the way it goes when you dig deep into a band: You hear these different phases as small and underrated masterpieces, secretly wondering how this didn’t conquer the world - or at least feeling a little bit sad that they didn’t.
The Candy Machine…. is emblematic to the EP as a whole. It sounds more technical and musically competent than what came before it, more nuanced, more air in the corners of each songs. A little bit more sophisticated, but not the slight less hard or punchy - there’s just a little more elegant touch to the intensity and the way it’s dispensed.
It starts off with this punchy, yet slick guitar thing, before Craig bursts onto the scene in the same persona he developed on Half Dead And Dynamite: The manic street preacher, a little bit hoarse, pretty determined, just chronicling the wild actions out in the streets. From the middle of the song he takes it all the way down, before the band head into one of these huge, romantic, cinematic parts they do so well on Fiestas And Fiascos. And then, it’s back to the hectic mess at the end - of course it is.
There’s not a crystal clear structure to the song, but you can easily tell that the band is so much more in control of the progress of the song than what it sounded like on the self titled debut. Everything here seems planned, deliberate, and executed with a confidence and a certain class. You can tell that they not only were about to become a really, really good band, but that they knew it too.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 28, 2021 2:41:46 GMT -5
quick little anecdote: I recall sharing a video of the band playing a few years back, and I typed up a little description and linked MV as an example track, talking about all of these unique qualities and mentioning much of what you both said. The only response at all on the thread was "They sound like a Dinosaur Jr cover band in that song." Haha, man. That's a bummer. I do see why people would think that, though. It DOES sound a little generic. But mostly in a good way. And I also think you're touching upon something really interesting in this post, with you careful attention to everything happening deep in these songs: Lifter Puller are very much a band with plenty of layers, and a band that really rewards the careful listener. I guess this is something every fan would say about almost every band, but loving both Hold Steady and Lifter Puller, I find this to be a lot more true about Lifter Puller than Hold Steady. Hold Steady is way more what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Sure, there's musical details to entangle, different parts who reveals themselves after 15 or 50 listens. But as a general rule, I tend to find more small easter eggs, WTF moments and revelations in Lifter Puller, even after spending well over a decade with their music. On a more general note: I think everything you say about the debut album, and the way it connects with indie rock in general, is really interesting. I've been thinking a lot about it, and also tried to juxtapose it with my own way into Lifter Puller. I think what made me slightly disregard the debut album, was because it was too similar to music I grew up listening too. When I fell in love with Hold Steady, it was sort of a break with five intense years where I listened to A LOT of different music, playing the part of the ideal eccletic music listener, but with a heavy emphasis on gritty, jangly, shaky and very guitar oriented indie rock. Hold Steady were something else, not so much in sound as in apporach. Stripped of irony and coolness, very earnest, playing big, 70s inspired rock music with pride and confidence. I think I was very ready for that at the time, 23 years old, sort of growing up, leaving some of the need to be cool behind, and just diving into something more... real? Earnest, at least. And this affected they way I approached Lifter Puller too. Because they in almost every way were more indie, more arty, more edgy, I kind of heard them as the youthful precursor, the sound of Craig Finn's mind and approach at a different time of his life. They became the arty flipside to Hold Steady, but with many of the same ideas in them. But going all the way back to the debut album, made them almost too human. It felt weird to hear them as a, still unique, but also pretty regular indie band. I don't think I was quite ready to really hear that, to sort of accept that that's where they started. That's also why I'm so thankful for being able to rediscover that album, hearing it with a different perspective, after reading Alright Alright. It made me unlock the album in a different way, made me listen for things I hadn't paid attention to earlier. Now I enjoy the entire album a lot more than I did before. I'm not sure if this make any sense, but I just wanted to write it out, and underscore that it's your emphasis on the debut album being something special, that have made me rethink some of these things. And while we're at it: I really hope we get to meet up again at a show sometime soon. New York in December is very unlikely for me, but if you ever consider London, please let me know. And I'll sure reach out when I make it back to the US somewhere down the line.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 28, 2021 9:47:50 GMT -5
But as a general rule, I tend to find more small easter eggs, WTF moments and revelations in Lifter Puller, even after spending well over a decade with their music. That's what really did it for me all those years ago. I'm still a huge THS fan as anyone here, but one day it hit me that nearly every track on Soft Rock was getting better and better as I drove back and forth through the snow on my ways to and from work that semester. I'd sit and re-play the same moments over and over again, including the intro to MV, just to hear those little sounds I was talking about. "Damn, this is really fascinating shit." And it was easy to get looked at like "man, you're just a hipster" but I was always genuine about how I felt, and I still am. I can never tell if it all is that "mythos" of the band. Maybe it's because they broke up at their "peak," so we'll always just be wondering "what if?" Can that really affect the way we interpret and listen to the music? I'd like to say no, because again, Lifter Puller is probably the only band in my collection I can say that I love every damn song they did, to one degree or another. Perhaps only having 53 tracks to count is what makes that possible. Makes a lot of sense. Even though I knew for sure Craig was always inflicting his own personal feelings and emotion into the writing and performing of every song his bands have done, there was something about this first record that I always felt was more like an insight to the kind of people they really were, rather than the characters they'd be writing about later on. Stories about nightlife, out-there characters and locales, etc. are all fascinating, but is that somehow antithetical to that more emotional side of indie rock? Is it "relatable?" Or is it noir/fantasy? It's fantastic music either way. Sorry if I'm rambling a bit as well, kind of out of it this morning I'd love to man. I'll always remember you looking at that sweater I made from the Slips Backwards single, and that time we spent hanging out and chatting is still one of my fondest memories from my time in NYC. I still kick myself for being kind of a social goofball by not trying harder to get in the show that second night. Sadly I don't know how easy it'll be—I was let go from that job shortly after COVID began and I've been living here in Tennessee of all places for the last year. Once things clear up more I'll try to make it to a Massive Nights show again—I'm hesitant this year with all the stuff going on and shows being cancelled, but I'll definitely shoot for next year if I can. If I ever get a job with a salary like what I had in NYC again, I'd love to come out to London, I've got a few friends out there I'd love to meet for sure. It's one of my favorites. Maybe it was seeing this Riverboat video all those years and years ago: I couldn't separate it from Plymouth Rock—on my list, I've kept them together specifically for how they flow together (One day Spotify will fix the bullshit where it doesn't work properly), and I could be wrong but I believe every live performance is always both tracks together? Both tracks are, to me, damn near the epitome of what I love about their later music, lyrics, everything. That off-beat drumming from Dan, the "clean" little guitar licks from Steve that fit so perfectly but I can't think of any other indie rock song that would have a sound like that with a song so rough-and-tumble. The breakdown, the Self-titled references/re-framing, "And she shoots it off to try to impress you / First she gets off, then she tries to undress you." To me, Plymouth Rock/Candy Machine is a damn near perfect pair to introduce someone to Lifter Puller who, at the very least, likes some "weird" music of their own and will appreciate it. It's funny, every time I wanna describe their music it's always like "a snapshot here, a snapshot there" that I focus on. I suppose it's harder for me to speak to larger context than that still, it's why I love reading your guys' descriptions and interpretations.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 30, 2021 5:05:02 GMT -5
#24: MANPARK
I tend to think of Fiestas And Fiascos as this one specific thing, this hectic, buzzing vibe that Pitchfork once described as “the feeling of now-fucking-what panic”. And while I intellectually know that the album is so much more than that, that’s the sound I hear in my head when I read the album title. That’s pretty much the sound of Manpark. Crushing guitars, that eager synth and Craig just barking out one drunken line after another, topping it off with an anthemic and quote-friendly chorus, not any lesser than anything Hold Steady later would do.
Still, even inside this breathtaking and frantic buzz, they take their time to take everything down, in the dream-like sequence where Nightclub Dwight tells us when he last saw The Eyepatch Guy. When the band winds it up again, it sounds like ascending sirens, like the cops finally have caught up with all of them, before Craig deliver one of my favourite lyric couplet in the entire catalog, so wired in all it’s weirdness: “Katarina, this is serious/ Juanita, eat the evidence”.
Manpark is pretty much a perfect album track. As a stand-alone song, I think it’s pretty great, but not all the way up there. The hectic vibe lends a lot of energy to the album, as a part of three buzzing songs just split up by Lake Street Is For Lovers. But I rarely put it actively on as a “single”.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 30, 2021 21:55:34 GMT -5
#25: THE CANDY MACHINE AND THE GIRLFRIENDMan, I have a soft spot for Entertainment And Arts. It’s crept up on me over a span of several years, and I’ve come to love it as a release, as a singular piece of art. And it’s increasingly amusing to me to think about how they just put out this batch of songs as an EP, in between two albums, and at the same time they scrapped amazing songs like The Langelos, Pirate And The Penpal, Mick’s Tape and 11th Avenue Freezeout. I guess this is the way it goes when you dig deep into a band: You hear these different phases as small and underrated masterpieces, secretly wondering how this didn’t conquer the world - or at least feeling a little bit sad that they didn’t. I can't help but notice, too, that the higher we get into the chart, the more our rankings are diverging all over the place ... I think we'd need a bigger sample size before concluding objectively that there's a real anti-consensus; still, this seems right in keeping with your point. I love pieces of the song: "it's 20 if i'm supposed to tell the truth/ and for 40 then i'll wipe down all your wounds with scotch and soda" is great; "credit card chicks takin cash advances" would be a world-class line even if we knew nothing else at all about Lifter Puller; and for the sake of the narrative, I'm very grateful for the lines about jenny and the glove compartment. But, maybe thanks to the music, none of it seems that serious ("heshers hangin on the hoods of their cars"!), and for me at least it doesn't build up to the heights reached by a lot of other songs on the later albums. #36 on my list.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 30, 2021 22:38:34 GMT -5
But as a general rule, I tend to find more small easter eggs, WTF moments and revelations in Lifter Puller, even after spending well over a decade with their music. That's what really did it for me all those years ago. I'm still a huge THS fan as anyone here, but one day it hit me that nearly every track on Soft Rock was getting better and better as I drove back and forth through the snow on my ways to and from work that semester. I'd sit and re-play the same moments over and over again, including the intro to MV, just to hear those little sounds I was talking about. "Damn, this is really fascinating shit." And it was easy to get looked at like "man, you're just a hipster" but I was always genuine about how I felt, and I still am. I can never tell if it all is that "mythos" of the band. Maybe it's because they broke up at their "peak," so we'll always just be wondering "what if?" Can that really affect the way we interpret and listen to the music? I'd like to say no, because again, Lifter Puller is probably the only band in my collection I can say that I love every damn song they did, to one degree or another. Perhaps only having 53 tracks to count is what makes that possible. I think you're right about the 53 tracks of exceptional quality having a lot to do with it. It's an incredibly spare body of work, not a wasted word or note, and all of it part of a bigger picture guaranteeing the "truth" of what we're hearing, even if it's obscure. No shortage of WTF moments. Makes a lot of sense. Even though I knew for sure Craig was always inflicting his own personal feelings and emotion into the writing and performing of every song his bands have done, there was something about this first record that I always felt was more like an insight to the kind of people they really were, rather than the characters they'd be writing about later on. Stories about nightlife, out-there characters and locales, etc. are all fascinating, but is that somehow antithetical to that more emotional side of indie rock? Is it "relatable?" Or is it noir/fantasy? It's fantastic music either way. At risk of appealing to the (I presume) not-widely-shared narrative account of things, my reaction to the early tracks is the opposite --- I see Craig going waaay out of his way to reframe the stories as relatable college indie material, when in reality they're precisely about the out-there characters (just look at Emperor: a song that's all about Charlemagne, the Holy Roman Emperor with the throne and crown and gloves and robes and holy war, but that's dressed up as the saga of a girl dropping out of school). 100% on the fantastic music, though. quick little anecdote: I recall sharing a video of the band playing a few years back, and I typed up a little description and linked MV as an example track, talking about all of these unique qualities and mentioning much of what you both said. The only response at all on the thread was "They sound like a Dinosaur Jr cover band in that song." I listened to some Dinosaur Jr to get a bead on "In a Jar" [Rental] and "Forget the Swan" [TPatP], and I know I'm a philistine, but it just does nothing for me; whereas I can't imagine anyone hearing Craig's lyrics and not being instantly hooked. Big world, and it takes all kinds, for sure. Meantime, good on you for at least trying to give people some exposure. For possibly obvious reasons, I gave up trying to convey my enthusiasms to innocent bystanders a long time ago :-)
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 30, 2021 22:47:57 GMT -5
#24: MANPARKI tend to think of Fiestas And Fiascos as this one specific thing, this hectic, buzzing vibe that Pitchfork once described as “the feeling of now-fucking-what panic”. And while I intellectually know that the album is so much more than that, that’s the sound I hear in my head when I read the album title. That’s pretty much the sound of Manpark. Crushing guitars, that eager synth and Craig just barking out one drunken line after another, topping it off with an anthemic and quote-friendly chorus, not any lesser than anything Hold Steady later would do. Still, even inside this breathtaking and frantic buzz, they take their time to take everything down, in the dream-like sequence where Nightclub Dwight tells us when he last saw The Eyepatch Guy. When the band winds it up again, it sounds like ascending sirens, like the cops finally have caught up with all of them, before Craig deliver one of my favourite lyric couplet in the entire catalog, so wired in all it’s weirdness: “Katarina, this is serious/ Juanita, eat the evidence”. Manpark is pretty much a perfect album track. As a stand-alone song, I think it’s pretty great, but not all the way up there. The hectic vibe lends a lot of energy to the album, as a part of three buzzing songs just split up by Lake Street Is For Lovers. But I rarely put it actively on as a “single”. Yes, but to me Manpark is where "the feeling of what-fucking-now panic" is at its absolute peak (well, Manpark and TFatBR). The shrubs; the pied piper; "power to the people making money with their mouths"; "hadn't seen the eyepatch guy since the LBI"; 1999 and the corvette; the cigarette and the tourniquet and 15th and Franklin; Juanita/Katrina; and finally, the manhunts --- non-stop, and insane from beginning to end. Love it. All the way up at #6 on my list.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 30, 2021 22:57:59 GMT -5
I do wanna clarify that I absolutely think there's more to Mission Viejo than just a cover for sure! just was always fascinating to see how newcomers judge their music. We often talk about that aspect of peeling back layers, making new discoveries, etcetera, so that initial reaction is always interesting to me.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 31, 2021 7:00:36 GMT -5
I do wanna clarify that I absolutely think there's more to Mission Viejo than just a cover for sure! just was always fascinating to see how newcomers judge their music. We often talk about that aspect of peeling back layers, making new discoveries, etcetera, so that initial reaction is always interesting to me. No, I totally got you! I was falling asleep when I wrote all that, sorry if it came out muddled. It's just a weird experience to recognize the craftsmanship in something to the point of being dazzled by the details of its construction, and at the same time to be basically unable to get others to look at it. Been there more than once, and it's fine of course, but I always wonder.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 31, 2021 14:29:41 GMT -5
#23: NICE NICE
It’s almost hard for me to separate Nice Nice from Manpark. Sure, I’m able to hum the two songs, remembering different structures and lyrics and all that. But they’re first and foremost The Two Songs Who Make Up The Middle Section Of F&F to me.
That might be a little bit unfair, cause Nice Nice is very much a song with its own identity and sound. It starts off in the harder and colder end of the Lifter Puller spectrum, with a noisy and cymbal heavy character portrait of Nightclub Dwight, but the part that follows is a surprisingly slick and poprock-y exhibition of how the band had evolved into a more nuanced territory. The dramatic synth-imitating-horns at closing off the final part of the verses are pretty cool! And the middle part reminds me a lot of the “Going backwards from the doctor to the drugs…” part of Most People Are DJs, like we’re a passenger on a freaky tourist bus, going through Craig’s lyrical universe.
At the end of the song, I still think of it more as a tool to make Fiestas And Fiascos a damn great album that a song I’d put on repeat. And it’s probably a song of the group of songs that I find quite impressive, in the sense that it showcases how good the band had become at this point, rather than a song I feel deeply emotionally connected to. #23 sounds about right, then.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 31, 2021 19:56:19 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm starting to get really curious about your top tracks ...
My take on Manpark is pretty different from yours, but for me too Nice Nice is precisely one of "The Two Songs Who Make Up The Middle Section Of F&F" (the second one comes in several slots lower in my ranking; I'll identify it when you get to it).
Leading with the critique of such a great song feels a little off, but I think I can sum up the entire reason why NN doesn't rank higher with a single observation: there's an indisputable "Nice Nice" anthem on F&F, and it's not called Nice Nice, it's called Candy's Room. Whereas the opening verse of CRoom is maybe the most electric image in the whole catalog, NN never comes close to pulling together that kind of focus or power; by the time you hit the endless final groove, it's receded into the background, a baseline of the overall atmosphere.
That said, it's one hell of a baseline. NN is our main authority for some of the most crucial information about the story: the initial relationship of Dwight and Juanita; the roofies; Dwight's hand in making things go off the rails; the initial identification of the Nice Nice with the brewery bar; the events on Franklin Frontage Road; the vicious cycle of drugs and sex; the doorman procedure at 15th and Franklin; the nature of the eventual revenge on Dwight; and a lot of other minor things too. Without being able to connect a word of it to any other song, it's an incredible canvas, a Hieronymus Bosch hellscape. Your "freaky tourist bus, going through Craig’s lyrical universe" is perfect.
Finally,
and the positive youth's shootin hoops slippin roofies in your jungle juice
has to be one of the top ten Lifter Puller lines ever, just knee-buckling filth (in the like vida blue sense).
#20 for me.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 2, 2021 4:23:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry I'm unable to comment fully on all the great comments here, the days just keep passing by. But I love to hear your takes on and raning of these songs. And I just have to underline once again, how hard I find this task. There's not just a vast amount of really good songs in the catalog, but they are also great in so many ways. Which makes it hard to compare them in a meaningful way.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 2, 2021 4:24:40 GMT -5
#22: JEEP BEEP SUITE
So here we are, at the very last entry from the debut album. I’ve been expressing a lot of doubt over how and where to rank these songs, and I’m still not sure I’ve nailed it. As I’ve said before: These songs have really grown on me the past year, and some of them could have been higher, some of them might get the benefit of some kind of recency bias.
But I think it’s justifiable to put Jeep Beep Suite close to the top 20, cause man, this is a good song. In a short playing time, it contains so much Lifter Puller-ness. From the light intro who turns into something darker pretty quick, the gritty and noisy guitar rock who’s a so large part of that debut album, they descension into something darker and more disturbing, the breakdown into something slower and more sweeping, and finally, the synth-bathing ending who sounds representative of the narrator’s mental and emotional state.
There’s both a playfulness and an intense drive to Jeep Beep Suite, which I enjoy a lot. To come back to previous themes: it sounds fulfilled, complete in a way. Not perfect, most certainly a little shaky, but it’s an idea thought all the way through, and presented the way it sounds like it was meant to.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Sept 2, 2021 10:52:54 GMT -5
I'm afraid I've been away on a trip for the moment and will be until the 12th or so, and that's why I haven't been saying as much either. I'm always reading the thread, but I'll definitely respond when I can.
Manpark is a tough call for me as for where I'd put in the overall ranking—it's likely in the teens/twenties, but I couldn't put it over Candy's Room, Touch My Stuff, or Limousine personally. I love that synth sound at the beginning and all that, the little moments like the breakdown, everything is great.
Nice, Nice on the other hand—and I'm not taking any pride in saying this—may be my lowest Fiestas track. As we've all said many times, these tracks are all great to some degree or another, and I'd still say I love the song in the grand scheme of things. And I could certainly see how strong it is as a character piece of the whole story, and there are tons of lyrics of note throughout the track (The drinks taste like Pantene/The Visine wipes clean all the bad dreams | or the aforementioned roofies/jungle juice, great stuff), but it's one that musically I've always found a bit less interesting. Still has "sounds" here and there that I love—the descending bassline gets me as always, the little synth kicks during the verses, the last note droning into Katrina, but it's almost SO lyric/line heavy that it's the one track that I feel the music just doesn't seem to matter so much. Maybe it's less abstract/cinematic to me than something like I Like The Lights in its depiction of a character's debauchery, but I do see how we need that character study to really understand what's going on in on this record, and why the ending is so heavy.
It's still a great track—just a little middle-of-the-road for me on an album full of expressive, wild, and exciting moments I suppose.
Wow, I didn't even realize it hadn't been listed yet. That bright/dark contrast from beginning to the end, the outro, so many little moments that are distinctly "Lifter Puller"'s version of indie rock in a way that I love. I can't say it's higher than the other tracks I've mentioned (and damn, I somehow missed your ranking of Double Straps back at #35, but it's great to see it get some love. It was definitely one that I was put off by when I first heard it all those years ago, but all these little charming moments throughout really grew and grew on me over the years.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Sept 2, 2021 18:13:20 GMT -5
It's all good about finding time for replies ... not easy to stay after a project like this day in and day out, with the demands of real life getting in the way. There's no hurry, either. #22: JEEP BEEP SUITESo here we are, at the very last entry from the debut album. I’ve been expressing a lot of doubt over how and where to rank these songs, and I’m still not sure I’ve nailed it. As I’ve said before: These songs have really grown on me the past year, and some of them could have been higher, some of them might get the benefit of some kind of recency bias. But I think it’s justifiable to put Jeep Beep Suite close to the top 20, cause man, this is a good song. In a short playing time, it contains so much Lifter Puller-ness. From the light intro who turns into something darker pretty quick, the gritty and noisy guitar rock who’s a so large part of that debut album, they descension into something darker and more disturbing, the breakdown into something slower and more sweeping, and finally, the synth-bathing ending who sounds representative of the narrator’s mental and emotional state. There’s both a playfulness and an intense drive to Jeep Beep Suite, which I enjoy a lot. To come back to previous themes: it sounds fulfilled, complete in a way. Not perfect, most certainly a little shaky, but it’s an idea thought all the way through, and presented the way it sounds like it was meant to. This is pretty close to where I am; I still have Sublet and Mission Viejo above it in my ranking, but I like Jeep Beep Suite a lot. Those jaunty intro notes after the Damon Locks "alright alright" opening totally set the tone for me; and even though it feels like the whole song is one long musical resolution from the first couple of chords after that, still I really like the way it winds down into its final notes. There are a lot of tricky Finn lyrics in JBS that I'm attached to, and the "brought back just a little bit" ending was revelatory when I was working on the narrative; but my favorite quote from the whole thing ends up being the little "picked her up at the airport/ she said i just got back and i'm already bored" character sketch while it's ramping up. Something in the offhanded way that last line rides the music is just perfect. Anyway, #26 for me.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 6, 2021 1:50:54 GMT -5
#21: LIFTER PULLER VS THE END OF THE EVENING
30+ songs deep into the ranking, I feel a little bad for the lack of attention to the pure musicality of Lifter Puller. I’m not a musician, and I’m not trained in evaluating musical performances as such. That’s part of the reason why I put emphasis on what Craig does and say (but come on, he takes up a lot of place too), or head into a more vague territory where I talk about mood, sound and the general feeling of a song. Still, I found it a lot easier to talk about guitar patterns, the interplay between the bass and the drums, the way the keys were used or arrangments and production when I did the THS countdown. I think it has a lot do with Hold Steady being a classic rock band, playing music I intuitively know, music easy to describe with the same language I’ve used to describe so much other music. Lifter Puller IS something different. Harder, grittier, more edgy or angly, more rythmic, dryer. Not exactly indie, not quite punk, a little arty, but still pretty straight-forward. They sound a little like many bands I love, but not quite like anything else.
Long intro cut short: Lifter Puller vs The End Of The Evening ranks at #21 mostly because of what the band does, and how they do it. It’s just a really great piece of music, perfectly balanced and tempered, with so many small pieces fitting perfectly together. It’s elegant, in a way, and I’m not just talking about the sweet intro, but also large chunks of what makes up the body of the song. I love the rolling, slightly choppy drums (re: the stuff I wrote about post punk and early 00s a bit upthread), and the way they play up against the guitars. And I love the variety of guitar sounds floating in and out of the song, from the clean melody stuff via the chugging fuzz chords beneath them to the solo fills.
It’s also a Lifter Puller song who follows a pattern in opposite to many other songs. Where plenty of their songs seem to start off pretty light, and the descend into something darker (plenty of songs from the debut, but also later songs like Manpark or Rock For Lite Brite), this one seems to built positivity and agency throughout. Musically, it seems to end on a lighter, maybe even more triumphant, note than it starts off.
Craig does a hell of a job here too, of course. And he does it by trading some of the manic intensity with style and control. I can dig that.
Oh, and this: “Love is like a battle of all the bands/ crank up your amps, man”. Fuck, I love that.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 7, 2021 2:03:40 GMT -5
#20: LONELY IN A LIMOUSINE
On the very opening track of Fiestas And Fiascos, Lifter Puller have finally arrived at a point where they’re able to be a slick and shiny beast of a band. The core of the song is most definitely rock, with a muscular and beefy engine. But the exterior is borderline sleazy, in the same way Charlemange In Sweatpants or the saxophone in Hostile, Mass are sleazy. And just to be clear, I mean that in the best way possible.
Just mere months back I considered Lonely In A Limousine as a little bit low-intensity opener, but going back to it for this list, my respect for it have grown a lot. There plenty of interesting things going on here musically, and the way the band build the groove everything else rely on, are in fact pretty impressive. Over a weird rythmic pattern, the guitars chum out just the kind of vibe the song need, and the drums work so well, both as the spine of the main riff and in all the fills between the parts.
The ending is also pretty special. I’ve talked about it before, how both Craig and the band with small details and a great deal of subtle finesse, are able to build momentum, and they sure do that here too. There’s a huge, big screen drama hanging over everything, when Craig slide into “...and the po-lice…”, and the ryhtmic punch at the very end, is just perfect.
Surely a lowkey contender for the top 10, but now we’re heading into kill your darlings-territory.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Sept 7, 2021 22:39:48 GMT -5
#21: LIFTER PULLER VS THE END OF THE EVENING30+ songs deep into the ranking, I feel a little bad for the lack of attention to the pure musicality of Lifter Puller. I’m not a musician, and I’m not trained in evaluating musical performances as such. That’s part of the reason why I put emphasis on what Craig does and say (but come on, he takes up a lot of place too), or head into a more vague territory where I talk about mood, sound and the general feeling of a song. Still, I found it a lot easier to talk about guitar patterns, the interplay between the bass and the drums, the way the keys were used or arrangments and production when I did the THS countdown. I think it has a lot do with Hold Steady being a classic rock band, playing music I intuitively know, music easy to describe with the same language I’ve used to describe so much other music. Lifter Puller IS something different. Harder, grittier, more edgy or angly, more rythmic, dryer. Not exactly indie, not quite punk, a little arty, but still pretty straight-forward. They sound a little like many bands I love, but not quite like anything else. The musical comments were a highlight of your THS rankings, in that they made me go back and listen with new ears to a bunch of songs I'd already heard a few hundred times. But you and thrasher9294 have said a lot of things here that have made me do the same thing with Lifter Puller, too. Long intro cut short: Lifter Puller vs The End Of The Evening ranks at #21 mostly because of what the band does, and how they do it. It’s just a really great piece of music, perfectly balanced and tempered, with so many small pieces fitting perfectly together. It’s elegant, in a way, and I’m not just talking about the sweet intro, but also large chunks of what makes up the body of the song. I love the rolling, slightly choppy drums (re: the stuff I wrote about post punk and early 00s a bit upthread), and the way they play up against the guitars. And I love the variety of guitar sounds floating in and out of the song, from the clean melody stuff via the chugging fuzz chords beneath them to the solo fills. Agreed --- there's more going on here musically, in the sense of shifting from one distinct "sound" to another, than in any other song I can think of. It feels way longer, by the time it's done, than 3:27 (only 6 seconds longer than The Flex And The Buff Result! actually shorter than Lie Down On Landsdowne! improbable!). Some of those brief parts are fantastic: the opener, with the laid-back guitar over the cars that sound like waves; the part at the beginning of the final verse that ends up in the warmth of "speedin into scranton." It’s also a Lifter Puller song who follows a pattern in opposite to many other songs. Where plenty of their songs seem to start off pretty light, and the descend into something darker (plenty of songs from the debut, but also later songs like Manpark or Rock For Lite Brite), this one seems to built positivity and agency throughout. Musically, it seems to end on a lighter, maybe even more triumphant, note than it starts off. This is a really good observation. You're right that there aren't many songs like this; I have to think about how that correlates with my rankings. Craig does a hell of a job here too, of course. And he does it by trading some of the manic intensity with style and control. I can dig that. Almost loses it with "christ on the cross," but manages to keep a lid on. Anyway, #21 for me, right below Nice Nice. #20: LONELY IN A LIMOUSINEOn the very opening track of Fiestas And Fiascos, Lifter Puller have finally arrived at a point where they’re able to be a slick and shiny beast of a band. The core of the song is most definitely rock, with a muscular and beefy engine. But the exterior is borderline sleazy, in the same way Charlemange In Sweatpants or the saxophone in Hostile, Mass are sleazy. And just to be clear, I mean that in the best way possible. Just mere months back I considered Lonely In A Limousine as a little bit low-intensity opener, but going back to it for this list, my respect for it have grown a lot. There plenty of interesting things going on here musically, and the way the band build the groove everything else rely on, are in fact pretty impressive. Over a weird rythmic pattern, the guitars chum out just the kind of vibe the song need, and the drums work so well, both as the spine of the main riff and in all the fills between the parts. I have it all the way down at #32, lowest ranking of all the tracks on F&F. But you're right that it's a great opening track, and just listening to the drums after reading your writeup, I have to admit it's pretty fantastic. Love the vocals on "long strings of pearls," too. And, not to drag in the narrative stuff beyond confessing a point of irrational attachment, I'll always be grateful for "calling you and me the chappaquiddick kids."
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 8, 2021 3:19:33 GMT -5
It feels way longer, by the time it's done, than 3:27 (only 6 seconds longer than The Flex And The Buff Result! actually shorter than Lie Down On Landsdowne! improbable!). There's not much about Lifter Puller that remind me of The Beatles, but this is what I would like to call The Happiness Is A Warm Gun illusion. It's 2:43 long, and feels like a little concept album of it's own each time I hear it. Same goes for You Never Give Me Your Money, one of my absoulute favourite songs. In general, Lifter Puller (but also Hold Steady) have a few songs who does this trick, and I think it's mainly down to the lack of verses and choruses. As a listener, you sort of lose sense of time, when there's a lack of a recurring theme to anchor the experience. As for the negative-songs-turning-positive, I think you could add Nassau Coliseum. The final part there is way brighter and more optimistic than the the first part of the song. Touch My Stuff is another contender, allthough you could argue it turns more hectic and now-the-fuck-what than positive/optimistic. I think you would find interesting stuff it you apply "who's in charge"/agency as a way to measure this. I guess it's been a lot on my mind after all your stuff about THS being a positive spin on the Lifter Puller narrative, but I think that contrast is apparent in individual songs too.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 8, 2021 3:20:10 GMT -5
#19: SECRET SANTA CRUZ
I was gonna start this text with a sigh about how this was another tough song to rank. But after going back to it, and giving it one full listen, it’s not that hard. This surely is a top 20 song for me, in all its static and riffy glory.
I had the impression that it was a little too simple. An abrasive riff, with an even more in-your-face version of Craig, just rambling through the wild tales of Jenny’s summer. But it’s actually a really well composed song, performed with elegance and energy. The first minute or so is mostly a single and simple riff, with a confident as ever Craig on top of it, and it’s close to the best adaptation of this version of Lifter Puller you’ll get.
Then everything tightens up, and that amazing middle part about the fun-fun music and the hedonistic rodeo is pretty mindblowing. It’s so tight and energetic, with Craig as a ringleader, but the entire band acting like directors, building drama and intensity with total control. And from 1:50 they blast into the final part with a blazing fury. The images of arson and The Alamo feels just about right, adding a cinematic feel to the aforementioned drama. And they keep it up all the way through the final line about not forgetting the alibi, adding some mystery to the rushed intensity.
As I said, I needed to hear the song again, with fresh ears, to fully appreciate it’s qualities. It’s not one of those big, sprawling songs, but it’s surely one of the best pure rockers in the entire catalog, with elegance, finesse and tightness all the way around.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Sept 8, 2021 21:47:28 GMT -5
As for the negative-songs-turning-positive, I think you could add Nassau Coliseum. The final part there is way brighter and more optimistic than the the first part of the song. Touch My Stuff is another contender, allthough you could argue it turns more hectic and now-the-fuck-what than positive/optimistic. I think you would find interesting stuff it you apply "who's in charge"/agency as a way to measure this. I guess it's been a lot on my mind after all your stuff about THS being a positive spin on the Lifter Puller narrative, but I think that contrast is apparent in individual songs too. Yes, and this is what got my attention when you formulated it this way; I think it's a minority of songs that have this characteristic, and yet the top 4 on my list all fit the description. This includes #4 Mission Viejo, which ends in a weak, but still-there, hope of improvement ... #19: SECRET SANTA CRUZI had the impression that it was a little too simple. An abrasive riff, with an even more in-your-face version of Craig, just rambling through the wild tales of Jenny’s summer. But it’s actually a really well composed song, performed with elegance and energy. The first minute or so is mostly a single and simple riff, with a confident as ever Craig on top of it, and it’s close to the best adaptation of this version of Lifter Puller you’ll get. Then everything tightens up, and that amazing middle part about the fun-fun music and the hedonistic rodeo is pretty mindblowing. It’s so tight and energetic, with Craig as a ringleader, but the entire band acting like directors, building drama and intensity with total control. And from 1:50 they blast into the final part with a blazing fury. The images of arson and The Alamo feels just about right, adding a cinematic feel to the aforementioned drama. And they keep it up all the way through the final line about not forgetting the alibi, adding some mystery to the rushed intensity. ... and #3, Secret Santa Cruz, which after as pure a stretch of insanity as exists in the catalog, ends with the kids' escape --- burned out, amnesiac, afraid of the long arm of the law, but in one piece. I have so, so much to say in praise of this song, but I'll limit it to 5 points: 1) it's tied (with Cruised And Accused Of Cruising) for the best title in the catalog. 2) "cash advances and jenny's back on campus" is such a great opening line that we have to point out the iambic pentameter and start talking about in medias res and Shakespeare if we want to get serious about it. 3) "the blue looks beautiful toppin' off the torch/ you don't have to go inside to buy, you can buy it off the porch" is one of the top 5 chills-down-the-spine moments in the catalog. 4) "and the night of all that bloodshed i was kissin' on some crackhead/ who said he knew about a party/ he keeps it in his mouth in those crazy chipmunk cheeks/ i gave him fifty and he kissed me, spit a little treat between my teeth/ i think we're starting to peak" is another, and is in addition maybe the truest moment of physically palpable panic in the whole thing. 5) all the things you said about the final two verses. Just unreal.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 9, 2021 2:48:18 GMT -5
... and #3, Secret Santa Cruz, which after as pure a stretch of insanity as exists in the catalog, ends with the kids' escape --- burned out, amnesiac, afraid of the long arm of the law, but in one piece. I have so, so much to say in praise of this song, but I'll limit it to 5 points: 1) it's tied (with Cruised And Accused Of Cruising) for the best title in the catalog. 2) "cash advances and jenny's back on campus" is such a great opening line that we have to point out the iambic pentameter and start talking about in medias res and Shakespeare if we want to get serious about it. 3) "the blue looks beautiful toppin' off the torch/ you don't have to go inside to buy, you can buy it off the porch" is one of the top 5 chills-down-the-spine moments in the catalog. 4) "and the night of all that bloodshed i was kissin' on some crackhead/ who said he knew about a party/ he keeps it in his mouth in those crazy chipmunk cheeks/ i gave him fifty and he kissed me, spit a little treat between my teeth/ i think we're starting to peak" is another, and is in addition maybe the truest moment of physically palpable panic in the whole thing. 5) all the things you said about the final two verses. Just unreal. Wow, all the way up at #3. I didn't really see that coming. But I totally agree on how and why Secret Santa Cruz is so great. I obviously have great affection for it too. I think what puts it at #19 rather than top 10 for me, is the same thing I've been writing a lot about, the separation of intellectual impressive and emotionally moving songs. This is a hard, tough, tight and raw song I admire a lot, but there's other songs with a stronger emotional nerve who really gets me in other ways. I often find myself walking around humming lines from this song - there's so many of them who are crafted into perfection, with words, associations, rythm and style, the full deal.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Sept 9, 2021 2:48:59 GMT -5
#18: SANGRE DE STEPHANIE
One of the few rankings I have slight regrets about. I’ve listened so much to Entertainment And Arts the past few months, but like thrasher was mentioning upthread, the song bleeds a little into each other for me. So let’s regard this as an appreciation of the EP, and especially the two tracks who hit me pretty late in my Lifter Puller life: The Candy Machine And The Girlfriend and this one.
I think there’s a special vibe to these songs, so mature and developed, not so much as songs, but arrangement and production wise. I’m not sure it’s my favourite version of Lifter Puller, but it sure sounds different. The guitar sound, the emphasis on drum patterns, the inventive bass lines. And while Craig still talks, shouts and sounds ragged and raw, there’s also a different vibe to his approac here.
Sangre The Stephanie is more mood than pure melody. The slow, slightly scary builup, and the way it now and then erupts in wide open guitar parts, sounds like a different band, and sort of dips into the not-very-hip, backwards-looking sound that Hold Steady so often dive into. I hear this as a counterpart to the cheesy saxophone on Hostile, Mass or even the sleazy shuffle of Charlemagne In Sweatpants.
What really makes this song for me, is the entire “She’s getting stoned when I came down the stairs” part. The sense of drama, the way Craig sounds so fucking tuned in, everything coming into focus. It’s not a flashy musical exhibition, it’s pure vibe, and I love that.
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