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Post by spacefuzz on Apr 13, 2021 14:45:08 GMT -5
#17: SWEET PART OF THE CITYFinal points: - There's an awful lot of references to injecetion of drugs, and what sounds like an overdose, on Heaven Is Whenever. I've always heard A Slight Discomfort as a an overdose song, the pairing of heaven/hole in The Smidge and lots of this song, obviously ("when everything sparkles and it feels like we're on wheels"). It might not make a ton of sense after the thouroughly narrative dissections we've been through the past years, but the intial feeling persists. Probably not so far off base given interviews about that time/record and "going pro" (his words) regarding drug use.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 13, 2021 15:19:15 GMT -5
#17: SWEET PART OF THE CITYFinal points: - There's an awful lot of references to injecetion of drugs, and what sounds like an overdose, on Heaven Is Whenever. I've always heard A Slight Discomfort as a an overdose song, the pairing of heaven/hole in The Smidge and lots of this song, obviously ("when everything sparkles and it feels like we're on wheels"). It might not make a ton of sense after the thouroughly narrative dissections we've been through the past years, but the intial feeling persists. Probably not so far off base given interviews about that time/record and "going pro" (his words) regarding drug use. Ah, I think I've missed that one. But it felt like a pretty natural explination for a lots of things. The prolonged hiatus, that Craig went away to do his first solo album, hints and winks in interviews about the band not being as close as they were. I know they've talked a lot about how Tad had to quit drinking, and how it created a distance between them. From what I can piece together, both of the songs who sounds most heroin-y to me (Sweet Part and A Slight Discomfort) was demoed as early as January 2009, but I guess Craig wrote the lyrics later than that. I would assume it was a little early for Tad "going pro", but that might be right. Edit: I found the "go pro" stuff. And now I remember reading it too. "“So, you get out of the hospital and you can’t drink anymore, and you’re like, ‘I know what I’m gonna do—I’m gonna go pro (with heroin). I would have bouts where I would try to get cleaned up and would wind up drinking again. When we were working on Heaven Is Whenever, I wound up in the hospital again. And they were like, ‘The fuck you doing? We told you this was going to happen.’” Being in the Hold Steady but not allowed to drink, on pain of death, is like running a brothel with your wife. “Being on a bus with people who are drinking and partying, I kind of built up a wall,” says Kubler. “I knew none of those guys would go there, so it was like my thing. It feels incredible for a while, and then after a while you’re just maintaining, and then you’re fucked.” By 2010, around the time the band was finishing up Heaven Is Whenever, Kubler had had enough. “I was like, ‘Fuck this. I don’t want to do this any more,’” he says. “OD scares? Sure. Because I used alone, there were times I would just wake up a few hours later and be like, ‘Fuck!’ And you make all kinds of deals with yourself. I don’t want to turn this into an NA meeting, but a lot of my using was resentment, and resentment, as they say, is like drinking a bottle of poison and expecting the person you resent to die. Here I am in a band that’s about partying and I can’t do that anymore, so I’m just going to hide.”" magnetmagazine.com/2014/09/26/the-hold-steady-ten-years-after/
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 13, 2021 15:38:49 GMT -5
#11: THE SWISHIf Positive Jam is the ideologic statement, the thesis of the band, then The Swish is the band putting this idea out in the world. Like the practical test following a theoretic assignment, they do everything they said they would in the previous track. They’ve started a band, they’re telling the clever kids to hold steady as fuck, and now their blasting into a positive jam for real.
The riff carries this very self-assured and slightly dangerous vibe. But not dangerous for real, there’s a little smile underneath there, making sure that you’re in on the joke. Hold Steady is very far from being ironic in any way, they’re quite often the complete opposite: Earnest, heartfelt and down to earth. But in the rockiest of rock on Almost Killed Me, you can sort of tell that they push it an extra step towards the cliche of 70s guitar rock, just for the fun of it.
And that’s what The Swish is. A dead serious, but still very fun rock song. There’s a playfulness here who’s hard to pinpoint, but who you certainly can feel, and a lot of Hold Steady’s early appeal exist in this feeling of people having a good time, playing rock music with a (metaphorically for Tad, literal for Franz, Galen and Craig) smile on their face.
The Swish used to be in every setlist, and I liked it that way. It felt like a safe haven, always fun, always engaging, but more like a fundament than flashy ornament. Still, it has some fantastic musical twists and turns. The tempo shift afther the chours, where tempo is substituted for heaviness, is great. The intro too. And while the last part feels a little less intense, it’s a perfect way to bridge the exhibition of the thesis coming to life with what’s about to follow. Final points: - After blasting through Stuck Between Stations, The Swish was the second song I got to hear Hold Steady do live. What a night it was (yes, I've posted it before, but I think this bears repeating): www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVQ7RWyL8eM- It feels very much like the bands real origin story bleeds into this one, with the Robbie Robertson and the Rick Danko mentions
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 13, 2021 15:59:31 GMT -5
#10: OUR WHOLE LIVES
Bam-bam-BAAAAM-da-di-da-di-bam-bam-BAAAAM-duuu-duuu.
Man, I love this riff. And I love Our Whole Lives. It has this almost undefineable rush of energy, joy and euphoria, while still sound very much like something big is at stake, or that demolition or crushing defeat is awaiting just around the corner.
While so many Hold Steady songs are sung from a slight distance, with the much talked about romanticism and sentimentality edging off the druggy and hectic movements of the characters, Our Whole Lives is told from the the eye of the storm. We’re out in the streets here, almost following the narrator literally step by step, from the corner to the shop to the church, and finally, to the place where shit is about to go down. And then, suddenly, we’re in the midst of it. Ring-ring-ring, bang-bang-bang, this is here and now.
The element of reflection appears in the chours, but is more of a short pause where the events stops, and we’re invited to hear the narrator telling himself that this is alright. He is a good guy, but you know, you can’t always keep things straight. As the same voice yelled 14 years earlier: “I deserve a little fuckup every once in a while!”. And as we know, after 25 years of these tales, it doesn’t end very well. And in many ways, it remind me of a Lifter Puller song, not in sound, but in perspective and scope. And even more explicitly too, as there’s plenty of callbacks to Viceburgh here (the right corner, the sugar packets, the townie jackets).
It’s just a short, sparkling and singular blast of energy, a song existing a little on the outside of everything surrounding it, an explosive moment in a day in the life of one of these characters I’ve grown to love so dearly.
Final points:
- If you're not familiar with Viceburgh, hear it. It's so good - This was a live highlight for me, even before Heaven Is Whenever were released, when they did it at End Of The Road Festival in 2009. I'm not quite sure if I've ever heard it again. Maybe in 2010?
Heaven Is Whenever wrapped up
We've reached the point where there's no more Heaven Is Whenever songs on this list. Quite a few of them were ranked in the lower half of the list, but all of the songs from the album proper made the cut - bar one. The Smidge isn't a bad song by any means, but it's probably the least engaging on the record for me. The angly riff never grabbed me, and while the bridge is pretty cool and the chours is alright, it feels inferior.
There's also to fully released and recorded bonus tracks who failed to make the list. The best one out of them is Beer On The Bedstand, which is a fine song. But it feels a little demo-like, and I still think it's more like a version of Warren Zevon's Carmelita than anything else. I'm pretty sure it would have been on here if it was included on the album back in the day, and I've been more familiar with it. The same could be said about Wonderful Struggle, which also is a song I really like. It seems a little like a bleaker version of stuff allready on the album, though. And out of that bunch, At Least Not Tonight is sharper.
I've thought a lot about how Heaven Is Whenever could have been a pretty good double album. While it seems contra-intuitive to suggest making a mediocre-to-good album better by doubling up the number of songs, I just think it would've changed the entire perspective about the band at that point of their career. People tend to accept double albums to be a little more spotty and sprawling, and maybe songs like The Smidge or Soft In The Center would have been treated more kindly if they were track #3 and #8 on the second disc than single songs out of ten on a regular album.
I don't know if it's right to include it here, but I forgot it when I did the Teeth Dreams wrap up, and it has Criminal Fingers as a b-side, so: The Bear And The Maiden Fair were (still are?) once Hold Steady's by FAR most played song on Spotify, for reasons we all know. I don't even know if it's right to include it here, or if it should sort as a cover (which it isn't, but it's a strange hybrid). It's a very funny song, of course, and it's such a rush hearing it cap off that episode (no pun intended). But it's tough to say that it's a song good enough to really be among the canon.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Apr 13, 2021 22:09:47 GMT -5
#10: OUR WHOLE LIVESBam-bam-BAAAAM-da-di-da-di-bam-bam-BAAAAM-duuu-duuu. OWL at 10 really surprised me; I knew you hadn't wrapped up HiW yet, but I hadn't had a chance to check off what you'd already included, and to work out where we were going. There are two trends here that are taking on accelerated importance --- the story of your own path through the songs, and the countdown itself --- and I wish I had a little more time to try to forecast where both are going, although as we get close to the end, maybe it makes sense for you to get your picks out before people have a chance to go through a process of elimination and spoil the surprise. I hope you'll post a summary list at the end; I'm really curious to go back and see what came in 2nd and 3rd on particular albums, for example. Psyched to get the rest.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 14, 2021 1:57:57 GMT -5
OWL at 10 really surprised me; I knew you hadn't wrapped up HiW yet, but I hadn't had a chance to check off what you'd already included, and to work out where we were going. There are two trends here that are taking on accelerated importance --- the story of your own path through the songs, and the countdown itself --- and I wish I had a little more time to try to forecast where both are going, although as we get close to the end, maybe it makes sense for you to get your picks out before people have a chance to go through a process of elimination and spoil the surprise. I hope you'll post a summary list at the end; I'm really curious to go back and see what came in 2nd and 3rd on particular albums, for example. Psyched to get the rest. I might be the most controversial entry, if I read the general fanbase correct. But it's been a mainstay for me among the biggest favourites, and I when I think it thoroughly true, that's where it belong on the list. I'll consider slowing it a bit down, haha. I tend to get things over with as soon as I start them, but I can see how it might be smart to slow it down. The document (without final points, and with seven songs left to write out, have amassed to 130 000 characters, so this have easily been the most productive ten writing days of my life. About the personal stuff: Yes, I think you're right. It's a circular thing, I guess. The more I like these songs, the more personal the reason for ranking them this high. Also, somewhere along the way here, I figured out it didn't make sense to do this in a cold and faux-objective way. This is a personal ranking, the reasons are personal and the songs are intertwined with my life in general. It's also feels nice to be reminded of how many good times this band have brought me, from traveling to friendships to just being the soundtrack to important times in my life. I'll hold out for #9 till tonight (local time)!
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Post by skepticatfirst on Apr 14, 2021 7:12:03 GMT -5
About the personal stuff: Yes, I think you're right. It's a circular thing, I guess. The more I like these songs, the more personal the reason for ranking them this high. Also, somewhere along the way here, I figured out it didn't make sense to do this in a cold and faux-objective way. This is a personal ranking, the reasons are personal and the songs are intertwined with my life in general. It's also feels nice to be reminded of how many good times this band have brought me, from traveling to friendships to just being the soundtrack to important times in my life. It's one of the best parts of the thread, and in some backwards way the thing that makes it most objective. Great stuff. I'll hold out for #9 till tonight (local time)! I'm glad you added "local time" :-)
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Post by star18 on Apr 14, 2021 9:42:09 GMT -5
I love to see "Our Whole Lives" so high. SUCH a fantastic song.
It's funny, even on albums that I've heard so many times, there are still some tunes that will catch me a little bit by surprise. This is one of them. Even though intellectually I "know" that it's coming, I get wrapped up in the atmospheric/drawn-out ending of "Barely Breathing," and then when the "Our Whole Lives" guitar part kicks in, it's always an instant head rush.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 14, 2021 10:51:19 GMT -5
#9: ENTITLEMENT CREW
When I first saw the e-mail announcing the release of Entitlement Crew, I was sitting at the same spot in the very same sofa that I’m sitting in now. I had put the kids to bed, and I was mentally preparing for what was about to happen in a couple of days: Getting on a plane to New York City to see Hold Steady for the first time in three years - and then do it again for the three nights to come. My daughter had just had her first birthday, my son was yet to turn 2,5. I guess the burden I put on their mother, and also their grandparents was right on the limit of the acceptable.
When the e-mail ticked in, I was pretty calm about it. But it soon sinked in: There were brand new music from the best band in the world, and it was damn good! I have to admit I thought it sounded more like a goodbye than the start of a new era, but if this song was the last we’d ever get from Hold Steady, I could live with that. The New York trip still felt like a personal goodbye - the last chance to catch them in a binge, before they inevitabely would call it quits. And I felt calm about actually making it, not sitting around a couple of years down the line, damning myself for missing the opportunity.
And there’s an enormously satisfying sense of calmness in Entitlement Crew too. It’s not mellow, not slow, just calm. And to me it’s a sound of the band free from the burden of constantly chasing the next level in their career. They’re settled, in the best way possible: As a band with a medium sized, but incredibly dedicated fanbase, with exceptional knowledge of their own strength, and with a secret weapon in suddenly being blessed with Steve Selvidge AND Franz Nicolay. And while Franz’ departure prompted an attempt to fill his gap with not just one guitarist, but more than twice as much guitars, his return made them do the opposite: Not strip things down, but rather deploying their resources in a smarter and a more economical way who ironically made them all shine even brighter.
Entitlement Crew is the pinnacle of Hold Steady v.2.0, it’s a perfect representation of both the idea of what this incarnation is, and how it sounds. It sounds modest, but self-assured, midtempo but definitly energetic, upbeat and easy, but with just enough rawness in the edges to keep us on our toes. It’s nothing wrong in being mature. It’s certainly nothing wrong in changing things up a bit. And while some of the rawness is long gone, it’s replaced by a comforting, yet exciting sound of a band who’s definitely alive and kicking, who has something to say. They’re still on a mission.
Final points:
- I might get a little hung up on the D4 references, but it made me so happy when it struck me that this one had one in it. It felt like a good sign. There's plenty of bands I've been turned on to through Hold Steady, but I think there's few records I ended up liking as much as Midwestern Songs.
Thrashing Thru The Passion wrapped up
So now we're here again. The final song from the Thrashing era, which ended up featuring quite a bunch of songs.
I've allread corrected my mistake of not bringing Condusion In The Marketplace into this list. I think it would have ranked somewhere in the #80s, but I like it a lot more now than upon arrival. It felt straight up boring the first few times I heard it, but I've grown to appreciate the sound, the little Lord I'm Discouraged throwback in the middle there, and the very rythmic and staccato pulse.
I could remember wrong here, but I think the only song remaining then is Last Time She Talked To Me, which is a weird little tune. It's almost deliberately little melodic, and twists and bend through strange parts, starts/stops and a lyric who seems almost mystical. I think I would say it's very interesting, but not that good - not better than any of these 100 songs, anyway. But it feels like a precursor to a lot of stuff happening on Open Door Policy.
I guess I also could have included Meet Me In The Lobby somewhere in between this and Open Door Policy, but I've set the bar at recorded versions. The Youtube clip of them doing it at Seth Myers is really good, though.
I'm pretty sure that's it? Thrasing is a really good album, but even if I was fully able to take it in as one when it arrived, it feels much more like a compilation of singles than an album in hindsight. I still enjoy that they collected it on a record with a title and a cover, though. It gives some sort of mental hook to hang it on.
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Post by star18 on Apr 14, 2021 13:23:34 GMT -5
Not to derail this excellent thread, but I'm a bit curious about this general point. The "collection of singles" has definitely become the conventional wisdom with regard to TTTP. Craig has specifically talked about wanting to make ODP more of a cohesive album, and I think at least 90% of the ODP reviews included some version of this idea.
For those of us who follow the band's every move, I understand that it was odd to hear a "new" album with only five new songs (or four, since "Denver Haircut" was released early, too). But I'm really curious if people would have had the same reaction/interpretation if we'd heard the exact same songs & order, just all released at the same time. It's impossible to ever know, so it's kind of a pointless question I guess! But for me, musically & lyrically speaking, I think "Thrashing" works beautifully as a full album, and it never feels disjointed or stitched-together to me in the way many critics claim. I think that the way the tracks were released has more to do with that narrative than the the record itself. YMMV!
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Post by tableinthecorner on Apr 14, 2021 14:50:55 GMT -5
Not to derail this excellent thread, but I'm a bit curious about this general point. The "collection of singles" has definitely become the conventional wisdom with regard to TTTP. Craig has specifically talked about wanting to make ODP more of a cohesive album, and I think at least 90% of the ODP reviews included some version of this idea. For those of us who follow the band's every move, I understand that it was odd to hear a "new" album with only five new songs (or four, since "Denver Haircut" was released early, too). But I'm really curious if people would have had the same reaction/interpretation if we'd heard the exact same songs & order, just all released at the same time. It's impossible to ever know, so it's kind of a pointless question I guess! But for me, musically & lyrically speaking, I think "Thrashing" works beautifully as a full album, and it never feels disjointed or stitched-together to me in the way many critics claim. I think that the way the tracks were released has more to do with that narrative than the the record itself. YMMV! As a new THS fan, you're 100% right (based on my experience, at least). I started listening in the fall of 2019; Separation Sunday immediately became the greatest album I'd ever heard. Soon, I fell in love with AKM and BaGiA as well. I eventually got around to Thrashing — I didn't realize that half the album had been previously released as singles at the time — and I was blown away on the first listen, as I have been by every album besides Teeth Dreams. Entitlement Crew was ethereal the first time I heard it, and Denver Haircut and Blackout Sam are both still in my top 16. (Epaulets and Star 18 have since surpassed Entitlement Crew. All five of those songs are amazing.) I think TTTP is a top five album; I have it ranked over Stay Positive. I'd be a lot more confident in that opinion if Esther and Eureka had made the cut over Traditional Village and You Did Good Kid. It might even be top four at that point, and the fact that those two aren't on there still frustrates me. I've strayed a little from the main point, though. Muzzle's write-ups on these songs have made it clear how personal everyone's rankings are. The context in which you hear them definitely matters, and if I had been a fan since 2004 or even 2016 I'm sure I'd feel differently. That being said, as someone who listened to Thrashing for the first time at the same time as the rest of the discography, I didn't get the feeling that it was not a unified album or vastly weaker than previous releases.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 14, 2021 16:13:55 GMT -5
Not to derail this excellent thread, but I'm a bit curious about this general point. The "collection of singles" has definitely become the conventional wisdom with regard to TTTP. Craig has specifically talked about wanting to make ODP more of a cohesive album, and I think at least 90% of the ODP reviews included some version of this idea. For those of us who follow the band's every move, I understand that it was odd to hear a "new" album with only five new songs (or four, since "Denver Haircut" was released early, too). But I'm really curious if people would have had the same reaction/interpretation if we'd heard the exact same songs & order, just all released at the same time. It's impossible to ever know, so it's kind of a pointless question I guess! But for me, musically & lyrically speaking, I think "Thrashing" works beautifully as a full album, and it never feels disjointed or stitched-together to me in the way many critics claim. I think that the way the tracks were released has more to do with that narrative than the the record itself. YMMV! I feel sort of guilty when you point this out, cause you're right: The "collection of singles" is a too simple, and a little cheap way to describe the album. I think what I meant to say was that back in 2019, I had no problem accepting or enjoying it as an album. I mean, I experienced it like one, was excited on release day, and played it front to back numerous times. It was even a kind of added feature to have heard most of the album already, cause I payed a lot more attention to sequencing, and how the song took another shape because of it. But also, how this have changed a little bit for me, and that I know feel like it's more what people described it to be back then, than what I did before - maybe because Open Door Policy feels like such an album-album. And becuase I haven't listened as much to it as an album the past year, so that when I see the tracklist now, they're more like standalone songs to me. If that makes any sense. I should have steered away from the collection-of-singles cliché anyway, cause I know this band better than simply repeating these tiresome catch phrases from reviews.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 14, 2021 16:23:25 GMT -5
As a new THS fan, you're 100% right (based on my experience, at least). I started listening in the fall of 2019; Separation Sunday immediately became the greatest album I'd ever heard. Soon, I fell in love with AKM and BaGiA as well. I eventually got around to Thrashing — I didn't realize that half the album had been previously released as singles at the time — and I was blown away on the first listen, as I have been by every album besides Teeth Dreams. Entitlement Crew was ethereal the first time I heard it, and Denver Haircut and Blackout Sam are both still in my top 16. (Epaulets and Star 18 have since surpassed Entitlement Crew. All five of those songs are amazing.) I think TTTP is a top five album; I have it ranked over Stay Positive. I'd be a lot more confident in that opinion if Esther and Eureka had made the cut over Traditional Village and You Did Good Kid. It might even be top four at that point, and the fact that those two aren't on there still frustrates me. I've strayed a little from the main point, though. Muzzle's write-ups on these songs have made it clear how personal everyone's rankings are. The context in which you hear them definitely matters, and if I had been a fan since 2004 or even 2016 I'm sure I'd feel differently. That being said, as someone who listened to Thrashing for the first time at the same time as the rest of the discography, I didn't get the feeling that it was not a unified album or vastly weaker than previous releases. I think this is really interesting. It's so easy to think that every people who love this band enough to spend time on a board like this, have been around since the 00s. Part of it is because I think that's most likely - I would guess the majority of Hold Steady's fanbase is the people who got in during their heyday, and just never got out. But also cause it's easy to think people are the same as yourself. At least for me, it is. So when I see you guys posting here, I just implicitly assume that you're 30-something guys who heard Stations or Constructive Summer fifteen years ago, and then decided to come along for the ride. It's good to be reminded that it's not like that. And for what it's worth, I've tried to make this ranking as personal as I can, simply cause that's how I like to read about music too - experiencing through other people's eyes, ears and lens, to get a sense of what music feel to them. And just to be clear about Thrashing: I think it's great. Back when it came out, I might have ranked it as their fourth best album, better than not only Teeth Dreams, but also Heaven Is Whenever or Stay Positive. But as I tried to express in the post above this, I think the overall sense of the album as an album has worn slightly off. I still think it's a really, really good collection of songs (had it not been for the confusion about Confusion, all of it's tracks would be on this list, while Teeth Dreams, Heaven Is Whenever and Open Door Policy have songs left out), but the overall feeling of the album has bleaked a little. Oh, and none of you guys are derailing anything. This thread is just a veichle to talk about Hold Steady, nothing else
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Post by tableinthecorner on Apr 14, 2021 22:30:55 GMT -5
And for what it's worth, I've tried to make this ranking as personal as I can, simply cause that's how I like to read about music too - experiencing through other people's eyes, ears and lens, to get a sense of what music feel to them. And just to be clear about Thrashing: I think it's great. Back when it came out, I might have ranked it as their fourth best album, better than not only Teeth Dreams, but also Heaven Is Whenever or Stay Positive. But as I tried to express in the post above this, I think the overall sense of the album as an album has worn slightly off. I still think it's a really, really good collection of songs (had it not been for the confusion about Confusion, all of it's tracks would be on this list, while Teeth Dreams, Heaven Is Whenever and Open Door Policy have songs left out), but the overall feeling of the album has bleaked a little. Completely agree with all of that. As much as I love analyzing Craig's story and lyrical phrasing and whatnot, this thread has reminded me that it's just as amazing to hear about people's personal relationships with these songs, technicalities aside. I haven't been able to totally keep up with the entire list so far and I'll definitely come back to reread some of these posts, but hearing all your THS thoughts has made for a great few days — thanks for doing this. Excited to see the rest of the top ten. After looking over everything again, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Banging Camp, Resurrection, Constructive, Hoodrat, Sweet Payne, Stations, and Casualties, but I have absolutely no idea what the order is gonna be. Based on gut feeling alone I'd put my money on Resurrection being first. I'm hoping Sweet Payne cracks the top five, but I'm happy it's made it this far regardless. The part where it kicks in with "I always dream about a Unified Scene" has gotta be one of the best THS musical moments.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Apr 15, 2021 6:00:51 GMT -5
And for what it's worth, I've tried to make this ranking as personal as I can, simply cause that's how I like to read about music too - experiencing through other people's eyes, ears and lens, to get a sense of what music feel to them. And just to be clear about Thrashing: I think it's great. Back when it came out, I might have ranked it as their fourth best album, better than not only Teeth Dreams, but also Heaven Is Whenever or Stay Positive. But as I tried to express in the post above this, I think the overall sense of the album as an album has worn slightly off. I still think it's a really, really good collection of songs (had it not been for the confusion about Confusion, all of it's tracks would be on this list, while Teeth Dreams, Heaven Is Whenever and Open Door Policy have songs left out), but the overall feeling of the album has bleaked a little. Completely agree with all of that. As much as I love analyzing Craig's story and lyrical phrasing and whatnot, this thread has reminded me that it's just as amazing to hear about people's personal relationships with these songs, technicalities aside. I haven't been able to totally keep up with the entire list so far and I'll definitely come back to reread some of these posts, but hearing all your THS thoughts has made for a great few days — thanks for doing this. About TTtP: for me, there's no particular rule to it --- Entitlement Crew remains a single in my mind; Epaulets is a straight-up second-slot album track; Confusion In The Marketplace has somehow become a genuine album closer. Still like listening to it front to back, though. Excited to see the rest of the top ten. After looking over everything again, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Banging Camp, Resurrection, Constructive, Hoodrat, Sweet Payne, Stations, and Casualties, but I have absolutely no idea what the order is gonna be. Based on gut feeling alone I'd put my money on Resurrection being first. I'm hoping Sweet Payne cracks the top five, but I'm happy it's made it this far regardless. The part where it kicks in with "I always dream about a Unified Scene" has gotta be one of the best THS musical moments. MoC already came in at #40; I know there's another track from AKM on tap, since I've been waiting to see where it comes in. I have to admit that I'm surprised and pleased to find Sweet Payne so high on people's lists, but I'll wait to comment on that for when it comes out. Looking forward to #8. :-)
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 15, 2021 8:09:38 GMT -5
#8: CONSTRUCTIVE SUMMERConstructive Summer is the sound of romanticism wrapped in barbed wire, a love letter to a blissful past, delivered with a rawness and anger over what’s lost, the perfect combination of celebrating youth while coming to peace with it being long gone.
It’s no wonder this have become such an anthem. And it’s also telling of what Hold Steady can be, what they have to offer, to a wide range of fans. This is a song you can scream along to as a 19 year old, taken at face value and a literal level: You just want to get up on those water towers to drink tand talk. You can scream along as a 36 year old too, remembering just how free you felt when you were able to do it, without too many consequenses. Or you can scream along no matter how old you are, or where in the world you come from, even if you’ve never seen a water tower in your entire life, because the way Hold Steady filters American popular culture through a lens of universal rock’n’roll salvation, is something you intuitively can relate to. The same way people once related to Iggy Pop or Joe Strummer. Hold Steady are more than a bag of references, they carry that torch, and they keep the flame alive.
“Getting older makes it harder to remember/ we are our only saviours”. Yes, it is increasingly hard to remember, when everything that constitutes “life” is pulling you away from what once mattered. But getting lost in the fog of a rock’n’roll show is exactly what Craig tell you it is: An annual reminder that we all can be, and are a part of something bigger. To not only express tihs as a sentiment in a song, but putting on a show who’s the physical manifestation of that sentiment, is a major achievement. Final points: - "We are our only saviours" is pretty close to a cliché, but it's in fact a line I've really enjoyed and taken comfort in plenty of times. - What were they thinking when they released that reissue in 2018, and made that Ben Nichols appearance 5000% louder in the mix? - The vagueness of "build something" is perfect Stay Positive wrapped upThat's it, no more Stay Positive songs on this list. I think I've included every album track, and also Adderall, Two-Handed Handshake and 40 Bucks. That mean I've left out two tracks who saw the light of day in 2007-08. Cheyenne Sunrise could easily have been on this list, and I think it competed with Modesto Is Not That Sweet for the #100 spot. They're quite similar really, and in many ways Cheyenne is the superior song. It just don't tend to go to these ballads for my Hold Steady kick, and while I think it's nice, it's pretty much unimportant to me as a Hold Steady track. The other original Stay Positive released song who's left out is Spectres, which is a weird, spooky and very much not-really-a-song song. I just don't totally get it. It's really cool, and I listen back to it with interest and curiousity, but it just didn't make the cut on a list like this. I've also left out three bonus tracks from the reiusse. Ballad Of The Midnight Hauler was for a long time a mythical song who appeared live now and them, and in many ways it's an obscure fan favourite. It's a cool jam for sure, and I can imagine it being an experience to hear a drunken and wild Hold Steady do it back in 2008. But it sounds a little pastiche like to me, a really fun song to record, but not that big of a thrill to hear. You Tremble and This Isn't Enough sounds like very obvious leftovers to me, significantly weaker than all the songs on the proper record. I admit I haven't spent that much time with it, but I also feel pretty confident saying that there's a reason for that. There's just one song left from this era - or at least I thought it was. It's a strange song, a Finn/Kubler original who actually got a proper studio recording and a release, but no one seems to remember: Just Saying. Now I realise the song was released way later than I though, on a soundtrack in 2011. That probably means it's more of a Heaven Is Whenever era song than something from Stay Positive. And when I listen back to it, sounds a lot like touchless. It was better than I remembered, really, but I still think it's one of their clearly most flat and unengaging songs. If you haven't heard it, it's here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex-wqzLVevQ
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Post by star18 on Apr 15, 2021 8:43:57 GMT -5
Well you certainly shouldn't feel "guilty" about it, my guy! I mean, even Craig has described it that way, so I guess that's how he feels, too. I was just curious.
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Post by thehudsonsteady on Apr 15, 2021 11:15:23 GMT -5
"even if you’ve never seen a water tower in your entire life, because the way Hold Steady filters American popular culture through a lens of universal rock’n’roll salvation, is something you intuitively can relate to."
Beautifully put. I think one of the amazing things about THS is the way they make the specific so universal. Like most of their fans I've never been to the twin cities, like a small minority I don't drink (or do drugs!), I've no experience of the kind of lives CF's characters often live,yet these ultra specific tales of people and places are incredibly moving.
Last point, 'Cheyenne Sunrise' beats 'Two Handed Handshake' any day, but I'll let you off.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 15, 2021 13:12:31 GMT -5
I think one of the amazing things about THS is the way they make the specific so universal. Yes, exactly this. I think this was one of the very first "meta" thoughts I ever had about the lyrics, after actually really listening to them, taking them in. The religous and drug aspects were pretty obvious, but soon after that it struck me how relevant these lyrics felt to me. And I can't quite explain why that is, other than that Craig use all these speficics in a very clever way to say something universal about people and places. I think I said something about it in the text about Charlemagne In Sweatpants, how you right away, just from this song, know exactly what type of guy this is. You can almost hear the sigh in his voice when he has to run all these numbers between bars, girls between cars. And you sense the notion of paranoia, and why he feels that way, when the streetlights turn into spotlights. And that's just the first verse of one song about this guy. He's described in a way that's recognizable. You might not know a guy who's crossed half of America with his teenage protege, making her turn tricks to score drugs. But you know the type. And for all the praise Craig have recieved from writting narratively great, I think the way he describes people are a little underrated. "She hung a sleeveeless dress upon a sleeved-up lifestyle/ girl you gotta cover that", "I have to try so hard not to fall in love, I have to concentrate when we kiss", "and you're a pretty good waitress" and about a hundred more - these little snippets paints almost full character traits with single lines. And often, the quotes or paraphrases of something someone has said, not only says a lot about the one being quoted, but also the character who re-tells stuff. It's just so good writing, on a sublime level. Same thing about specific places. You don't need to walk the Grain Belt Bridge yourself to understand the significance and feeling of doing it after a full night-turned-morning of partying. You don't have to had an adress on Hennepin Ave. to sense the feeling in the shared house when a character like Mary shows up wearing an outfit like that, and how it requires someone getting more wine. And you don't even have to know what a prom is to understand the vibe of the party in Massive Nights. I'm a drinker, but I'm not into anything else, and I lived the first 18 years of my life in a smalltown somewhere in Norway. Yet, theset things resonnated enormously with me. Exactly cause what you say: Craig is a master of turning the specific into something universal, and it's because his lyrics really isn't about sex, drugs or religion, but about people, how we see ourselves and others, how we frame our own stories in relation to others. About human interaction, really.
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Post by kayfaberaven on Apr 15, 2021 21:17:52 GMT -5
#29: SLAPPED ACTRESSAnother album closer i needed to experience in lots of different ways before I really fell for it. At first, I thought it was a victim of the darkness and resentment in Stay Positive in general. It’s pretty dark and massive, and leaves little room or space for contemplation - except for when the band tells you to, in a way. Franz’ very, very emotional piano, and the “Sometimes actresses get slapped…” part (also, really, everything Franz contributes in general here, he add so much sadness into a very massive and full song). But then it’s kind of at the band’s wish. You don’t get to decide for yourself, they lead you through the pre-destined emotions.
Two things changed this: 1) As with Southtown Girls, experiencing it live, along with 1500 other people. Not just the woo-hooa’s at the end, but just being in a room full of people, and to feel this song ring through my entire body. And 2) getting completely lost in the beyong magnificent Here Goes thread on this very message board, five years ago. I can’t pinpoint exactly what in it who made Slapped Actress feel special, but it made me appreciate Hold Steady even more, and on a level I’d never thought was possible. It changed my perspective on so many things, and off course, the lyrics specifically. At first it was just a quest, solve the riddle. Afterwards it have made me able to dwell on single lines, single words even, in a way that’s both strangely fulfilling and extremely exciting.
Long digression, but in short: Slapped Actress have grown into a gigantic song for me. It’s still a little too much fanfare and power, and a little bit to little of subtlety or nuance, but it’s alright. It’s this kinda song, and it does what it’s supposed to do in a pretty much perfect way. A great set closer, a great album closer, emotionally heavy and really hitting you over the head in all the right ways. Final points: - Back in 2008, I bought Opening Night on DVD, but I never got around to watch it. It's interesting that this movie is referenced so heavy in two separate Stay Positive songs - Hats off to yet another conversational style lyric, with only one part of the converstaion cited. I've said it many times before, but this is so good writing. This is sacrilege, but I prefer Slapped Actress to Killer Parties, and I think it would be a fine closer in place of KP on some nights during 3 or 4 night stands.
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Post by kayfaberaven on Apr 15, 2021 21:22:00 GMT -5
#26: HEAVY COVENANTThey way each instrument are introduced, how they never compete for space, and while adding layer after layer, the song stays fresh, breezy and listenable.
This, exactly, especially on headphones. I've mentioned this in a few places, but by the end of the song it sounds like there are at least 20 different sounds sharing the same space without overwhelming one another.
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Post by spacefuzz on Apr 16, 2021 5:09:48 GMT -5
#29: SLAPPED ACTRESSAnother album closer i needed to experience in lots of different ways before I really fell for it. At first, I thought it was a victim of the darkness and resentment in Stay Positive in general. It’s pretty dark and massive, and leaves little room or space for contemplation - except for when the band tells you to, in a way. Franz’ very, very emotional piano, and the “Sometimes actresses get slapped…” part (also, really, everything Franz contributes in general here, he add so much sadness into a very massive and full song). But then it’s kind of at the band’s wish. You don’t get to decide for yourself, they lead you through the pre-destined emotions.
Two things changed this: 1) As with Southtown Girls, experiencing it live, along with 1500 other people. Not just the woo-hooa’s at the end, but just being in a room full of people, and to feel this song ring through my entire body. And 2) getting completely lost in the beyong magnificent Here Goes thread on this very message board, five years ago. I can’t pinpoint exactly what in it who made Slapped Actress feel special, but it made me appreciate Hold Steady even more, and on a level I’d never thought was possible. It changed my perspective on so many things, and off course, the lyrics specifically. At first it was just a quest, solve the riddle. Afterwards it have made me able to dwell on single lines, single words even, in a way that’s both strangely fulfilling and extremely exciting.
Long digression, but in short: Slapped Actress have grown into a gigantic song for me. It’s still a little too much fanfare and power, and a little bit to little of subtlety or nuance, but it’s alright. It’s this kinda song, and it does what it’s supposed to do in a pretty much perfect way. A great set closer, a great album closer, emotionally heavy and really hitting you over the head in all the right ways. Final points: - Back in 2008, I bought Opening Night on DVD, but I never got around to watch it. It's interesting that this movie is referenced so heavy in two separate Stay Positive songs - Hats off to yet another conversational style lyric, with only one part of the converstaion cited. I've said it many times before, but this is so good writing. This is sacrilege, but I prefer Slapped Actress to Killer Parties, and I think it would be a fine closer in place of KP on some nights during 3 or 4 night stands.
I agree. But SA to end the main set and KP as the encore finale is just as great. And as said above, can't wait for Sweet Payne!
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Post by spacefuzz on Apr 16, 2021 5:11:17 GMT -5
Edit: If Sweet Payne isn't in the final songs (and thus not the top 100) I think we might have to meet at the border and shout at each other about it.
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Post by kayfaberaven on Apr 16, 2021 10:42:20 GMT -5
#26: HEAVY COVENANTThey way each instrument are introduced, how they never compete for space, and while adding layer after layer, the song stays fresh, breezy and listenable.
This, exactly, especially on headphones. I've mentioned this in a few places, but by the end of the song it sounds like there are at least 20 different sounds sharing the same space without overwhelming one another. Also, I'm still convinced the main guy in the song is cheating on his wife while out on his business trips, finding drugs and "friends" based on this: I'm sorry but my meeting got delayed /I'm going to be another night. It's phrased differently than earlier in the song when they're calling the front desk: we're going to need another night / We're going to stay a second night.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 16, 2021 13:41:40 GMT -5
#7: UNPLEASANT BREAKFAST
Yeah, I know, it might be premature. But I honestly think Unpleasant Breakfast is one of the very best songs Hold Steady have ever made. On a brand new album filled with elborate, complex and very organic music, this is the undisputed centerpiece, the emotional anchor and purest manifestation of the confidence and inventiveness in the band at this point in time, and also how they’re able to execute it with a finetuned fingerspitzgefühl.
There’s two major things at Unpleasant Breakfast’s core: Mystique and a strong feeling that this really matters. There’s just something in the slow burning arrangement who lays the fundament for Craig’s very speficic, yet very vague tale about someone who meant a lot to him once. Exactly what constitues this close relationship, and where it goes wrong, is hidden somewhere between the lines. But even when he puts the magnifying glass over the mundane, like coffe turned cold, you can sense the deep and conflicting emotions about the romance (of some kind) who now’s gone.
This is one of the musically most brave songs Hold Steady ever put to tape. The drum machine, the sparse needles of guitar who pokes holes in the monotony, and then the slow and very organic buildup. The accordion is a perfect companion to the maritime oriented lyrics, and the way they take it up a notch in the “chours” is so subtle and perfect. Suddenly we’re in a groovy but also sort of trippy mix of Primal Scream on Screamdelica and Sympathy For The Devil by The Rolling Stones. What the woo’s are supposed to signal (I’m pretty sure it’s seagulls, my 4 year old daugher thinks it’s horses, and we can both rely on the lyrics), but there’s both something ghost-y and a suggestion of the sea being the scenerey.
There’s a couple of lyrical masterpieces in here. The first one is the incredibly long sequence that starts with “That summer at the shoreline….” where we get dragged through an entire short story before the sentence even and. The last one is the eerie, yet funny part about the woman walking out into the water, turning around, and then getting photographed. Like this little scene is so life-changing and important that it warrants an entire verse.
Then, the music shifts, and we’re in for yet another surprise, as the song ends in a blazing (but also subdued) finale. In one way, it seems out of place, for a steady banger like to this, to change it up so late in the tale. On the other hand, it sounds like it just had to erupt into something like this. And when we finish off where we started - at the breakfast table - but everything’s changed, it’s like we’ve been to the moon an back in five minutes.
Final points:
- Reading the tracklist for Open Door Policty, it felt like a silly title, and I was a little afraid it would be a bit cocky rock-out. Turned out I was pleasantly wrong - Talking about heroin again, burn marks (from a spoon?) on the window sill, and being crazy about horses, is so straight forward drug talk that I almost wonder if it's about something else - I mentioned Screamadelica, and to be a little more specific, this reminds me of large parts of Come Together. There's even some of the horns in there who sounds like a reference to that. It might be a weird influence for the band, but not completely unlikely either, since Stone Roses are referenced in The Most Important Thing
Open Door Policy wrapped up
I guess it was a minor surprise that we weren't done with Open Door Policy already, and there's not much left too say. After all, it's a pretty fresh album, and when we've been through the songs, I feel a little done. For now, at least.
There's not much extra material or tracks to mention here either, but there's two song for the album who didn't make it on the list: The first one is The Prior Procedure, and I think it was pretty close to make it on the list. I like it, but there's something a little off about the melody to me. Something in the same category as T-Shirt Tux or Navy Sheets. I think it's a cool album track, but it won't ever be a favourite of mine. The other one is Me And Magdalena, who I appreciate intellectually, but who doesn't get my heart beating. It's a little in the same style of the hectic/hard songs, some melodic warmth I miss. But it also picks up great energy throughout the song, and I like the latter part better than the first. Both of these song are remarkably well written, performed and arranged - there just this emotional component who doesn't sit quite right with me.
I sure hope there's more songs from these sessions, that eventually will surface. The fact that Parade Days was left out due to not fitting the concept (I still don't quite get what that means) and being so damn good, gives hope for anything left in the vault.
It sure feels good sitting here with a eight album from the band, and being able to add nine of the eleven songs on this top 100 list, though. I'm so glad it exists.
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