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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 11:44:44 GMT -5
Hi muzzle! Thanks for bringing 'saddle shoes' and 'records and tapes' to my attention, I'd completely overlooked them and have enjoyed hearing them a lot. I have to say I'm shocked you've included big cig and almost everything at the expense of 'on with the business', but I love the way you're including the way a song may have an importance within THS' 'history' into your list. Your thoughts on 'spinners' were really revealing but I disagree on the lyrics, I love the way there's a lot of space in the words, they're very universal without being ultra specific for a change. Anyway, be warned, if 'Banging Camp' comes in outside the top 10 you'll be hearing from my solicitors! Glad you liked Saddle Shoes and Record And Tapes! I still think they sound more fresh and vibrant than most of the tracks of Teeth Dreams, each in its own way. And, yeah, I get people like On With The Business. It has much of what constitutes a great Hold Steady song, and I love some of the lyrics in it. It just feels a bit too cold to me, musically. And I really didn't mean to trash the lyrics of Spinners. I think they're quite good, they're just a few steps behind pretty much every other song. I respect the more universal approach, but I think even some of that is a little half baked. It's not the universal-ness I have a problem with, it's more that I think Craig can do better. Banging Camp is definitely on this list. Pretty high up too. How high we'll know in a week or two!
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 11:47:39 GMT -5
#35: CERTAIN SONGS
Talking about ambition: Though it’s a weird one, strangely underdeveloped, resting on a couple of great but quite simple ideas, this is still an empowering anthem built on a classic lyric with a near-universal appeal. This is what Hold Steady not only were able, but very intent to do right from the get go, blasting out the most clever motivational poster quotes in the world backed by big, ringing guitar riffs.
But in Certain Songs, the piano does lot of the heavy lifting, and therefore it’s also an interesting precursor of what was about to come. I don’t think I understood how much I loved a good rock piano before I heard Hold Steady. It’s off course been present in plenty of songs I love, but I’ve not paid that much attention to it. Certain Songs shows how effectfull it can be, and as we all know, there were even better things to come.
This isn’t a meticously written, and perfecty constructed rock song, but it comes with tons of emotion, and the everlasting mix of something-at-stake/romantcism-turned-melancholic. I love the atmosphere of the song, how Craig’s blasting out advise, descring scenes and characters, and rooting it all in this banal, but still so true statement: Certain songs get so scratched into our souls.
Final points:
- This is was when Franz first was brought into the studio to do anything Hold Steady related. If I remember correctly, they then found out he'd might as well add some piano on Sweet Payne too - Talking about Hold Steady's ambitions: I'm not sure if this is a case of it, but I'm pretty sure Craig have some attention towards catch phrases writing his lyrics.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 11:50:39 GMT -5
#34: CATTLE AND THE CREEPING THINGS
I feel this is about the right time to say that we now enter a territory of the list where rankings almost become a litte arbitrary. I’ve done my best to set songs up against each other, but just around #30 we are into songs I deeply love, and who all have an (to me) important place in the Hold Steady canon.
It felt right to put it here, cause Cattle And The Creeping Things is a classic. The second track on maybe the best album ever released, the one who really turns on the heat, shambling and rambling its way through druggy teenagers and about half the Old Testament. It’s a hectic rush of a song, maybe a little bit too hectic for me, but it always stays on track. And Craig is just spitting out one amazing oneliner after another, while still managing to keep everything together. In many ways, this is Hold Steady at it most Hold Steady-esque. I think this is the way both people who love, hate and are indifferent to the band, could agree upon being the sound of them, in a way. And that’s a big thing in itself.
When I put it below a few other rockers on Separation Sunday, it’s just a case of personal preference. I think I enjoy songs with a tad more focus on melodicness and a soft edge here and there even more. But damn, this is a good one.
Final points:
- This song is so full of references to recurring motifs in Craig's lyrics: The bugs, the four horsemen, visions, the cross around her/someone's neck, born again/resurrection and even some cowboy stuff in the "cattle". - I imagine Patrick Stickles heard this song and fucking LOVED it, long before Titus Andronicus recorded their first album
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Post by thehudsonsteady on Apr 11, 2021 13:21:47 GMT -5
'cattle...' was their first song to really get it's hooks in. I started with BAGIA then SS and BAGIA doesn't have those dense lyrics like SS. the bass riff that comes in around "half of them were friends" is fantastic, Galen often gets overlooked I think. I love the way the lyrics on SS are often shouted, reminds me of a review I read of UK band The Fall "The singer doesn't sing, he just shouts, and mostly in one note". Love this song.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 14:21:50 GMT -5
#33: SPICES
Spices is just a so majestic song. The intro sounds straight up dangerous, like there’s some bad shit about to go down, and Craig does very little to change that impression when he leads off with the photo he recieves. I really dig how these verses are so economicial. If they’d recorded this song for Teeth Dreams, I imagine the room would be filled up with guitars and more guitars. But while entire Open Door Policy have a wide range of sounds, instruments and multiple different things going on in each song, they keep the idea in focus. The clean but aggressive style is just so damn effective.
What’s even more effective, is how they with subtle tools turn the intensity further on in the chours. It feels like an explosion, but it’s neither fast nor noisy. It’s rather the sound of a band who’s now able to just control the experience so incredibly well. There’s just a raw, vibrant, dizzying pulse here, without painting the picture to obvious, and I love it.
It’s more because of the small things, the things that exist in the song’s soul (in lack of a better word), between the sounds and instruments, than the grandeur of the exterior, who makes this a late period classic.
It feels like a song who just will grow bigger in time, cause it rests on this pulse and this drive, rather than a melodic lick who will wear off, or a single part or a move who I’ll at some point lose interest in. What a second track of an album.
Final points:
- Other bands have attentive fans too, but I doubt there's too many fanbases who'd rush to the licqour store to by vanilla vodka, just to re-create a bar order from a song - Single word song titles is a lot less common from Hold Steady than what one might think, and over 30% of the album songs with this feature are to be found on Open Door Policy. Knuckles, Citrus, Magazines, Spinners, Oaks, Epaulets, Spices, Lanyards, Riptown. - The first time I heard this song, at the digital Massive Nights 2020, it sounded like Hold Steady's take on a QOTSA song.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 14:24:49 GMT -5
#32: HOT SOFT LIGHT
Hot Soft Light have been a slow burner for me. I initially thought it was a little too hectic or hasty, and I struggled really finding the emotional nerve in it. The final part, where Craig repeats himself over and over, with an extremely tight band as his backdrop, were always the exception. And that part is still a huge Boys And Girls symbolizer for me, the way teenage desperation glaced with melancholy bursts out of a band on a mission.
But in time, the entire song have became more and more meaningful to me. I have to admit that making it bleed together with Constructive Summer at the live shows, have made a big importance to me. Constructive Summer is so good, that it could have made Hot Soft Light sound even bleaker in comparison. But the effect is the oppsite. Constructive Summer serves as a perfect buildup, and makes Hot Soft Light even more powerful.
I also think I appreciate a really tight and condensed song like this more than I used to. After about a hundred listens, the melody seem to come through in another way, knowing the song in and out make me appreciate the small twists even more. After two pretty much perfect rock songs, it gives Boys And Girls a certain hardness and rawness, and totally adds to the total feeling of that album.
Final points:
- Again Craig does a great job of writing a lyric based on answers to questions we don't get to hear. It's clever, and it's very effective in keeping the listener interested. - Hot Soft Light is such a good song title
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 14:30:40 GMT -5
#31: STEVIE NIXAgain we’re at a song with two very distinct parts, and both of them are pretty classic Hold Steady.
First of is the cocky, riffy rock’n’roll excess, with a riff so static it threatens to just go into an eternal loop, only broken up by some sweet drum fills and a few extra guitar licks. I seem to remember that before Steve joined, this was a song Craig actually played a fair bit of guitar on while doing it live. And it sure needs the power, cause even if the riff is good, it’s also pretty reliant on power to fullfil it’s mission.
I love how they break it down allready in this first part, from “I was half dead…”. That is such a good shift, and I love both how the band suddenly seem to float above the riffage, and also how they kick back into gear when we’ve learned about the fenced in cowboys. It all ends with a body in the garbage dump.
Then, it’s the final part, which have to be among the most iconic, important and narrative-carrying in the entire catalog. Here, we learn about the death and resurrection of Holly, and everything - drugs, sex, religion, the supernatural - is brought together in the “Lord to be 17/33 forever”.
Hell, even the little briding device between these parts - the piano interlude by Franz, maybe his most Franz-y contribution in the history of the band - is amazing. If you put on Separation Sunday, you’ll immediatly notices he’s there, the organ is everywhere. But this is the song where he just plays those big, sweet and clear piano notes, when everything stops. Where he sort of makes his everlasting stamp on this band. They way the band use him here, also shows how much they’ve grown just since Almost Killed Me. It’s a lot of what they did around this time who could see as engineered to tick the band a few steps closer to the mainstream. But the way they just put Franz’ piano all the way in the foreground, like they do here, also show some boldness, I think.
We’ve talked about importance, and how different songs play a different role in the catalog. This is the narrative and musical centerpiece of their very best album. It’s not my favourite song, but I enjoy it a lot when I get to hear i live, and the way it ties the album together is impressive. Final points: - There's lot of funny lines and verses in the catalog, but I still think the one about Rod Stewart is on top of mye list. Just imagining someone actually saying that to someone. - Just to elaborate (as if it wasn't long enought) about the boldness of that big piano break: I was re-watching the amazing recording of the 2007 show at Hovefestivalen, my very first Hold Steady show, the other day. And every time they reach that piano break, I'm at the edge of my seat. Will the audience accept this? Is this where the unfaithful festival goer turns his (let's be honest, they're mostly "him"s) back on the band, and seek out something else? They came into this festival with an indie label on them, and most people were pretty more aware of the good press in Pitchfork than the praise in Rolling Stone. And that's why I feel this was sort of bold. They didn't have to do it that way, but they chose to. And it sounds good. Watch the entire show here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVQ7RWyL8eM
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 11, 2021 14:34:00 GMT -5
#30: SOUTHTOWN GIRLS
I can still remember the night Southtown Girls cliked for me. It was in June 2010, and I had just travelled from Copenhagen (where I lived at the time) to Amsterdam to see Hold Steady, all by myself. Lots of people I knew spent their early 20s travelling the world, but I never did. I just wasn’t that interested, and I’ve always been more into different kicks. Music, visiting as many bars as I can in a particular city, getting to know some of those bars good enough to feel at home. I studied, listened to music, wrote about music, and felt pretty good in that world. And it was not that going from Copenhagen to Amsterdam alone felt like an expidition, it was more that it felt like a big step towards aknowledging just how big of a fan I was of this band. It was my frist time travelling abroad alone, and also the first time ever I went to a show (anywhere) alone. The next day I got on the plane to London to do it all again.
They did Southtown Girls that night, and it was the first time I heard the stretched out version of the “Take Lyndale…” part of the song - with the “naughty, naughty Northside”, which now almost feels weird to not hear on the studio version. And it just hit me so hard, the entire song. Up till this point, I’ve felt it was a bit of a weak ending to a perfect album. Good, by all means, but also a little on it’s heels, a little tired, lacking some energy, while clearly being a song attempting to feel energetic, allthough in a little more mellow way than the pure rockers.
Live, though, everything who felt a bit held back in the orignal, came to life. The groove, the little sting in the lyrics, the harmonies, the sweet interplay between Galen (that little flick he delivers right at the end of said part about the naughty northside, before the band steps up again, is just transcendent) and Tad.
It’s not as majestic as other closers, and it’s beauty is more in the groove and the way the song build it up, but I grown to love it.
Final points:
- It's no wonder why fans of this band dream of visiting Twin Cities, just to get the geographical thrill of walking in and out scenes for songs - And even though it's so specific, the chours has an universial audience. No matter where you from, you'll find the couterpart to the southtown girls
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Post by skepticatfirst on Apr 11, 2021 18:25:16 GMT -5
Can't keep up so I'm just replying to things haphazardly. Your writeup of Riptown was on my mind because the song has been on my mind, and this: is a weird thing I can't explain. We know that Craig almost went with "Youth Services" instead of "Separation Sunday" because he was afraid people would misspell it; but I can tell you from experience (working it into the Alright Alright writeups) that 2 times out of 3 typing "Riptown" comes out "Riptwon" (just like "Charlemagne" comes out "Charlemange" and "Juanita" comes out "Juantia"). So all weekend I've been humming "another quick visit to Riptwon" in my head, and I think it might be time to institutionalize that as the version of the people. Riptown ... also makes me think of Titus Andronicus, and the A Productive Cough album. Both that and this song have a relaxed loosness to them, the sound of a good band having a good time in the studio, with no ambitions of changing the world in any way. Just fun, pleasing, good-natured, in a way. It fits so well into Open Door Policy, and is a welcomed breath of air between two pretty hectic and angly songs. I subscribe to all of this --- the zero-stakes hand-wave-Dylan quality of A Productive Cough, the relaxation, and the breath between songs. It's also the beginning of that arc of three final songs that I'm always psyched to get to, and the point to which I usually rewind after Hanover Camera finishes.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Apr 11, 2021 21:29:23 GMT -5
#42: MILKCRATE MOSH“You know, the gin was just like Gideon”. That’s how everything starts, the first line of the first song Hold Steady released. I was still three years away from hearing a single note from them, but you can sort of sense that this is an origin story.
Isn’t it a pretty unique song in the catalog? The wandering and almost stoner like groove just worming its way through the song, Craig sounding like he’s buried not only in the mix, but somewhere in the studio too, big and anachronistic guitar licks over a steady beat. It’s pretty weird, but it’s also very cool. And when Craig goes all the way down in the Denver slums, and take the band with him, you wonder if it’s just gonna fizzle out. It doesn’t it kick back harder than ever, literally louder, even, and they finish of with a final guitar excess.
So many lines and verses here who makes the narrative brain going into overdrive, and it’s like a crash course, an extremely condensed introduction to the entire universe. That might be the most important thing about the song, how it feels like opening a can of myth. When you say "that's how everything starts" I get a little chilly ... I knew SS and BAGIA well before some things happened and I discovered this version of Milkcrate Mosh, from 2009, on youtube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=URRN4T9PQ7s&ab_channel=kingofthecastle7As I write this it still has only 2,175 views, and if you haven't heard it, listen. It's all the slow jam groove of Charlemagne In Sweatpants or Southtown Girls live, and all the heavy narrative freight of THS shot through it at the same time. The one solitary comment on the video: is what made me do the "wait a second, what?" that led to all of my interest in LP/THS as a story, completely unimagined until then. Love this song irrationally. Craig has called it something in the style of the Grifters (referenced in TMIT), which is about as emphatic a recommendation as you could ever find, but I haven't gone back to listen to them since I read him saying that. One of these days I'll do that; God knows I'm curious.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Apr 11, 2021 21:37:01 GMT -5
#36: SPINNERS... Teeth Dreams wrapped upWe've now reached the first entry on this list who also is the last entry from an album/era, and as we're approaching #1 I will let you know when you can't expect to see any more songs from that particular album. No song from Teeth Dreams rank higher than Spinners on this list. Your discussion at this boundary was really interesting. Apart from the fact that I follow you completely --- Oaks is complicated; Wait A While failed; I agree entirely that On With The Business is clinical and unmoving --- I bet the high-water-mark discussion on an album-by-album basis is going to be revealing, even for folks who've been around a while. Bring it on.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 1:31:08 GMT -5
Can't keep up so I'm just replying to things haphazardly. Your writeup of Riptown was on my mind because the song has been on my mind, and this: is a weird thing I can't explain. We know that Craig almost went with "Youth Services" instead of "Separation Sunday" because he was afraid people would misspell it; but I can tell you from experience (working it into the Alright Alright writeups) that 2 times out of 3 typing "Riptown" comes out "Riptwon" (just like "Charlemagne" comes out "Charlemange" and "Juanita" comes out "Juantia"). So all weekend I've been humming "another quick visit to Riptwon" in my head, and I think it might be time to institutionalize that as the version of the people. Hah, I hadn't noticed myself! I think "tw-" could be meomrized by my hands, as I write it several times a day. And I struggle with Charlemagne too. I've always thought the norwegian word "mange" (many) was the reason, a word I obviously write quite a lot, but maybe it goes deeper than that. And "separation" is an easy one for me, and I think it might be because in Norwegian we pronounce "separasjon" with an a-sound 100% similar to how we pronounce the letter A. Actually, after reading that Craig quote, I've often though I'd be writing "separation" wrong, and went back to check, only to find out that my intuitive spelling is the correct one. Just to spin a bit further on this point: I admit that these text are written out pretty quickly, and I never go back to check on either content or spelling. It has to be like this for me, to keep it fun. I've always loved to write about music, and I've done it for the past 20 years. Either on message borads, on various blogs or even semi-professional for a couple of years (I didn't get payed, but the online zine I wrote for was decent enough that I got a few festivals for free, in exchange for writing about them). But I always struggle with the notion that things I write, need some sort of contextual theme, and I spend too much time trying to figure out the concept instead of just writing. Whenever I actually start off a project, it's sort of a self defense mechanism to think as little as possible, and just get on with it - hence not proof reading, and pretty messy spelling. It's not an excuse, I just had to put it out here while we're touching into it in some way. By the way: Riptwon sounds like a bad ass character fron The Wire, really. I think about this pretty often, really - as this also kickstarted Here Goes, and thereby also the next level shit in my own experience of the band.
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Post by thehudsonsteady on Apr 12, 2021 1:31:41 GMT -5
Can't keep up so I'm just replying to things haphazardly. Your writeup of Riptown was on my mind because the song has been on my mind, and this: is a weird thing I can't explain. We know that Craig almost went with "Youth Services" instead of "Separation Sunday" because he was afraid people would misspell it; but I can tell you from experience (working it into the Alright Alright writeups) that 2 times out of 3 typing "Riptown" comes out "Riptwon" (just like "Charlemagne" comes out "Charlemange" and "Juanita" comes out "Juantia"). So all weekend I've been humming "another quick visit to Riptwon" in my head, and I think it might be time to institutionalize that as the version of the people. Riptown ... also makes me think of Titus Andronicus, and the A Productive Cough album. Both that and this song have a relaxed loosness to them, the sound of a good band having a good time in the studio, with no ambitions of changing the world in any way. Just fun, pleasing, good-natured, in a way. It fits so well into Open Door Policy, and is a welcomed breath of air between two pretty hectic and angly songs. I subscribe to all of this --- the zero-stakes hand-wave-Dylan quality of A Productive Cough, the relaxation, and the breath between songs. It's also the beginning of that arc of three final songs that I'm always psyched to get to, and the point to which I usually rewind after Hanover Camera finishes. A lot of albums have a song that doesn't stand out out as much as the others, not as loud or shiny, a song you sometimes forget is there, but is still great. when it comes on you think 'ah, forgot this was next' , 'Riptown' is that song to me from ODP.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 1:34:45 GMT -5
#29: SLAPPED ACTRESS
Another album closer i needed to experience in lots of different ways before I really fell for it. At first, I thought it was a victim of the darkness and resentment in Stay Positive in general. It’s pretty dark and massive, and leaves little room or space for contemplation - except for when the band tells you to, in a way. Franz’ very, very emotional piano, and the “Sometimes actresses get slapped…” part (also, really, everything Franz contributes in general here, he add so much sadness into a very massive and full song). But then it’s kind of at the band’s wish. You don’t get to decide for yourself, they lead you through the pre-destined emotions.
Two things changed this: 1) As with Southtown Girls, experiencing it live, along with 1500 other people. Not just the woo-hooa’s at the end, but just being in a room full of people, and to feel this song ring through my entire body. And 2) getting completely lost in the beyong magnificent Here Goes thread on this very message board, five years ago. I can’t pinpoint exactly what in it who made Slapped Actress feel special, but it made me appreciate Hold Steady even more, and on a level I’d never thought was possible. It changed my perspective on so many things, and off course, the lyrics specifically. At first it was just a quest, solve the riddle. Afterwards it have made me able to dwell on single lines, single words even, in a way that’s both strangely fulfilling and extremely exciting.
Long digression, but in short: Slapped Actress have grown into a gigantic song for me. It’s still a little too much fanfare and power, and a little bit to little of subtlety or nuance, but it’s alright. It’s this kinda song, and it does what it’s supposed to do in a pretty much perfect way. A great set closer, a great album closer, emotionally heavy and really hitting you over the head in all the right ways.
Final points:
- Back in 2008, I bought Opening Night on DVD, but I never got around to watch it. It's interesting that this movie is referenced so heavy in two separate Stay Positive songs - Hats off to yet another conversational style lyric, with only one part of the converstaion cited. I've said it many times before, but this is so good writing.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 1:42:15 GMT -5
#28: KNUCKLES
This sure feels like an origin story, Not only of Gideon, but of the band itself. And maybe that’s cause it is, I think this was the first song they wrote. The emphasis is a lot more on rocking out than writing elaborate melodies, but I’m surely not alone to appreciate the gritty and static vibe. And in this way it’s pretty similar to Stevie Nix, all the way down to the melancholc middle part. There’s no Franz to paint in broad strokes here, but the elegant guitar play works damn well, and the little drum part that ends the part of the song, before Craig goes a capella, and everything kicks in to the final blaze, is maybe the Judd Counsel stamp on his role in this band.
Knuckles is a raw, rambling piece of music, but you can tell that it’s not made by 22 year olds. I overuse terms like “sentimental”, “melancholic” and “bittersweet” in this thread, but I think it’s important to underline just how much grownup emotions there actually are in these songs, even the most straight forward of them. There’s always something lurking beneath even the most joyful rock song, and it always sounds like the humans behind shining through.
Knuckles is off course a thril to hear live, but even when I go back to the album version, and expect it to sound a little dated, maybe too simple, I get impressed of how rich it really is.
Final points:
- Freddie Mercury isn't present in any other Hold Steady song, as far as I can tell, but he pops up on Craig's first solo album, in the album highlight No Future. - It's also interesting that this very first song is one of the few who so explicitly connects the narrative not only to drug use, but drug production. It's sort of a sneek peak into just how dark this world really is.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 5:49:53 GMT -5
#27: MASSIVE NIGHTS
In the text about Knuckles, I elaborated a little bit about even the happiest Hold Steady Songs have a small piece of bittersweet in them. I think I’m able to find it in Massive Nights too, but there’s few songs with a more pure joyful vibe than this one.
It starts almost tauntingly, teasing us with the goofy little bass line, and when the guitar comes in it doesn’t really demand to be taken seriously either. It’s such a good natured song, a universal anthem to young lust and desire to party. When the chours hits, it’s pretty much perfect. And I must say that Hold Steady never have incorporated the wohoa’s and the backup vocals better than here. It almost flows into the instruments, creating a massive feeling of senseless partying. This is definitely the song I imagine when looking at the Boys And Girls record cover. The screaming faces covered in sweat, confetti and few worries about what comes ahead.
I know there’s darknes lurking underneath as soon as you get a grip about the narrative, but at face value it’s the most blissful and pure poprock eruption Hold Steady ever made. And it still feels amazing hearing it live. I still find pleasure in all engagement between the band and the audience live, but it would be a lie to say all of the elements still feel as spontanious and happening-in-the-moment as the first times I experienced it. The collective howl of Massive Nights still does, though. And while it lacks some of the sense of importance that some of the other big tracks have, it’s still among my favourites.
Final points:
- About making things universal, and appealing to a broader audience: This is pretty spot on. The description of this scene is so general that it could have been about parties I attended in suburban Norway circa 2000 (except for the upper drugs, but still, moonshine sort of does the trick). - I wonder if any of you can describe what goes on musical/technical when they turn the chours up another notch near the end. Is it a modulation? Or something else?
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 5:52:37 GMT -5
#26: HEAVY COVENANT
To me, Heavy Covenant is the pinnacle of what the new version of Hold Steady are able to do in a studio. This song is so carefully constructed, recorded and mixed, it’s maybe the best sounding Hold Steady song to date. I’m no audiophile, and I know very little about the actual process of recording and mixing music. But I have pretty good experience as a listener, and I think I’m able to articulate what works (for me) and not. And this works so damn well. They way each instrument are introduced, how they never compete for space, and while adding layer after layer, the song stays fresh, breezy and listenable.
But it’s not only a soundwise pleasure, the song itself is pretty damn good too. The melody is soft and not very flashy, but it moves in a certain direction all the time. There’s purpose and drive here, but it’s still mellow and hesitant. And Craig sings it absolutely marvellous. Sure, there’s song where his intense bark comes off more intense, but this is among his very fines vocal performances, adding so much human doubt, desire and regret into very straight-forward lines.
It’s also a little funny to think back at some of the criticism of Heaven Is Whenever. There were lots of objections to it, but many complained about it sounding to bright and slick. I sometimes got the feeling that this was a placeholder critique for something else, mainly that the songs just wasn’t good enough, but I would like to ask the same people how they feel about the slick beast of Heavy Covenant. Different situations and context, though, and maybe this suits the more mellowed and mature Hold Steady more than what it did back then.
A definitive highlight of Open Door Policy, and a song I think will stick around in the canon of the 35-40 most popular songs for a long time.
Final points:
- In another thread on this board I was discussing the idea that there's more hockey references in the lyrics than what we might have realised. "Power play" seemed so specificly hockey oriented. I haven't got much further, though - "Covenant" was another word I had to search up to know the meaning of - There's some magificent shifts in this song, where the guitar and the keyboard take turns in playing the same theme. So seamlessly incorporated in the song.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 5:57:24 GMT -5
#25: GIRLS LIKE STATUSI feel a little shy about putting Girls Like Status this high, cause there’s lots of things about it who suggest other songs are better, more powerful, more elegant. This is a pretty simple song, built on a stomping midtempo riff, with Franz’ harmonica adding the spice to the stew. But I dig the little pull/release thing in the riff, and the way it seems very, I don’t know, present. The chours is another blast of joy, and the sweet little bridge feels like it comes close to you, like Craig coming into your living room to speak directly to you. It’s a medium good song on paper, but Hold Steady seemed like they were at a place in 2006 where this was enough. The interplay and the joy of playing music filled even these songs with something special.
I have to say a few words about the lyrics too. At first they seem a little simple, adjusted for what Craig’s able to do. But if you look closely, it’s a technically really good one. The two verses are pretty much perfectly mirroring each other, just with a different context. And the way he uses alliterations here are nothing but mindblowing. I wrote a text about the lyrics in Norwegian once, and anyone interested could run in through Google translate. It’s not perfecet, but I’ve checked, and the main meaning is conveyed: jonas-spildrejordet.medium.com/the-hold-steady-girls-like-status-2006-380e4984972This song might feel a little bit special to me cause it was the first non-album track I searched down and got to hear. And becuase of the Mountain Goats reference, who at that point might was my favourite band. #25 is a little higher than it might desrve, but I think I can defend it. Final points: - I've always thought "Song number three on John's last CD" is one of the least poetical lines Craig have ever written. Why on earth would he phrase it like this? And "CD" isn't just very anachronistic, even back in 2006 it was unusual to refer to an album as "a CD". That was just the medium, not the cultural artefact. Nowadays he sings "Song number three on The Sunset Tree", which is far better, but I still wonder why he didn't phrase it differently back then. - I'm not a big subscriber to the feminist criticism of Hold Steady lyrics, cause I think most of them are being said by characters with a different world view than Craig. But both naming this song Girls Like Status, elaborate with "guys go for looks, girls go for status" AND do a live intro to the song where this is framed as an advise from his dad, might be a little too much, even for a medium woke person like myself.
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bigontheinside
Midnight Hauler
If you don't know the words, don't sing along
Posts: 1,478
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Post by bigontheinside on Apr 12, 2021 8:52:37 GMT -5
#25: GIRLS LIKE STATUSI feel a little shy about putting Girls Like Status this high, cause there’s lots of things about it who suggest other songs are better, more powerful, more elegant. This is a pretty simple song, built on a stomping midtempo riff, with Franz’ harmonica adding the spice to the stew. But I dig the little pull/release thing in the riff, and the way it seems very, I don’t know, present. The chours is another blast of joy, and the sweet little bridge feels like it comes close to you, like Craig coming into your living room to speak directly to you. It’s a medium good song on paper, but Hold Steady seemed like they were at a place in 2006 where this was enough. The interplay and the joy of playing music filled even these songs with something special.
I have to say a few words about the lyrics too. At first they seem a little simple, adjusted for what Craig’s able to do. But if you look closely, it’s a technically really good one. The two verses are pretty much perfectly mirroring each other, just with a different context. And the way he uses alliterations here are nothing but mindblowing. I wrote a text about the lyrics in Norwegian once, and anyone interested could run in through Google translate. It’s not perfecet, but I’ve checked, and the main meaning is conveyed: jonas-spildrejordet.medium.com/the-hold-steady-girls-like-status-2006-380e4984972This song might feel a little bit special to me cause it was the first non-album track I searched down and got to hear. And becuase of the Mountain Goats reference, who at that point might was my favourite band. #25 is a little higher than it might desrve, but I think I can defend it. Final points: - I've always thought "Song number three on John's last CD" is one of the least poetical lines Craig have ever written. Why on earth would he phrase it like this? And "CD" isn't just very anachronistic, even back in 2006 it was unusual to refer to an album as "a CD". That was just the medium, not the cultural artefact. Nowadays he sings "Song number three on The Sunset Tree", which is far better, but I still wonder why he didn't phrase it differently back then. - I'm not a big subscriber to the feminist criticism of Hold Steady lyrics, cause I think most of them are being said by characters with a different world view than Craig. But both naming this song Girls Like Status, elaborate with "guys go for looks, girls go for status" AND do a live intro to the song where this is framed as an advise from his dad, might be a little too much, even for a medium woke person like myself. I really like the phrasing of "John's last CD". There's something so friendly and personal about it that we don't get from Craig pretty much ever. It does stick out like a sore thumb though. As for the message of "guys go for looks, girls go for status", I think how problematic a statement it is really comes down to what he means by "status", which is a pretty vague term. I always thought of it as social status, the guy at the party who's charming, likeable, friendly with everyone, seems stable, confident, high self esteem. That doesn't seem particularly problematic to me. But I've heard other people interpret it as "women like money", which... yeah.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 9:08:53 GMT -5
As for the message of "guys go for looks, girls go for status", I think how problematic a statement it is really comes down to what he means by "status", which is a pretty vague term. I always thought of it as social status, the guy at the party who's charming, likeable, friendly with everyone, seems stable, confident, high self esteem. That doesn't seem particularly problematic to me. But I've heard other people interpret it as "women like money", which... yeah. I don't think it's problematic at all, really. It's more... cheap, in a way. And I'm firmly in the camp that most of the lyrics that have been discussed in this perspective, is very much tied to the characters in the narrative. Still, it's an interesting debate, in a more general way. Especially since some of the most vocal criticism came from... Franz Nicolay. Haha, yeah, I kinda like "John's last CD" too. It's just SO out of character, in many ways.
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Post by star18 on Apr 12, 2021 9:58:55 GMT -5
Just a pretty basic key change, one full step up. Which actually ties back into your description:
The "take the last chorus up a step" is a super formulaic/cliche move at this point in pop songwriting. It's basically a hack to wring a little extra excitement out of a chorus that you've repeated too many times already, so it's used pretty sparingly by most modern/indie rock bands unless they're deliberately going for a blatantly-pop feel. I can't think of another THS song that employs this move quite so brazenly.
This was my first real "what??" moment in terms of the rankings. I would have such a hard time with my own version of this project, but I'm pretty positive that "Stevie Nix" would be a shoo-in for top ten.
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mafee
Clever Kid
Posts: 94
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Post by mafee on Apr 12, 2021 10:19:24 GMT -5
Not particularly relevant to anything - but my brother and his wife had this played as the last song at their wedding party. I was lucky enough to have Craig hand write this line to them on the back of a setlist when he supported (I believe) Brian Fallon in Dublin. The was a few years ago now - I must actually frame it and give it to them So, for reasons more than just the quality of the track, I really like this song. Interested to see your Top 10.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 10:23:11 GMT -5
Ah, I see. But isn't that the same as a modulation? Not that it matter all that much, but I recognize the move, I'm just notoriously bad when it comes to music theory. (Just as band as I am sorting out the quote function on this board, apparently) Yeah, I know, it seem pretty low. For what it's worth, it's pretty much no difference between, say, #20 and #35, if that makes it any better, haha.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 12, 2021 10:25:30 GMT -5
Not particularly relevant to anything - but my brother and his wife had this played as the last song at their wedding party. I was lucky enough to have Craig hand write this line to them on the back of a setlist when he supported (I believe) Brian Fallon in Dublin. The was a few years ago now - I must actually frame it and give it to them So, for reasons more than just the quality of the track, I really like this song. Interested to see your Top 10. That's excellent! And it's certainly a thing that would push a song further up my own list too. Yeah, I'm getting excited about revealing it myself. The more I write, the more I feel some of them are contrary-picks-for-the-sake-of-being-contrary, but then again, that's not quite right either. We'll get there in a few days, I think.
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Post by thehudsonsteady on Apr 12, 2021 11:34:06 GMT -5
"the criticism of Heaven Is Whenever. There were lots of objections to it, but many complained about it sounding to bright and slick. I sometimes got the feeling that this was a placeholder critique for something else, mainly that the songs just wasn’t good enough"
Muzzle, you hit the nail on the head. Completely agree with this, the production didn't help but it doesn't mask a fairly tired and uninspired collection. I love THS but from first listen it was obvious that HIW was a disappointment. Your top 30 is going to be fun, like choosing your favourite child!
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