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Post by jawbone on Apr 9, 2010 23:33:49 GMT -5
The new songs aren't up to the standard of those of the previous three albums. Hurrijane J is a misfire at appealing to a broader audience and Rock Problems tries to split the difference for the band's 'long time' fans and a newer audience. I've seen two shows recently, and the the moral of each has been the same: the older songs are just better. (Save the "but the songs have to be tried on the road, first" lines). Four songs have been tipped and none are on the level of Hold Steady greats. There isn't a Stations, Hoodrat, Chips Ahoy, Swish, Constructive Summer in the new batch...any coincidence the four songs I've mentioned seem to be staples of the new tour? I'll give the time that I'm told is due, but when I see five pages of raves on Hurrijane J, I can't help but think people have drank a certain Kool-Aid. Why isn't the band experimenting more with the two new members? Both have been marginalized...Aren't Burlington, Albany, Woodstock (and any other off the grid location) opportunities to screw around... try a bad idea, NOT play IT SAFE...again the "give it time" will get repeated in an almost Pavlovian defense...There are some real q's that need to be addressed.
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Post by hollywasahoodrat on Apr 9, 2010 23:41:23 GMT -5
some of the songs (We Can Get Together, Rock Problems, Our Whole Lives) are not up to par with songs like Stations or Swish, we acknowledge that but Hurricane J is a great song catchy chorus, neat story, great music, i cant complain it's difficult for any band to constantly outdo themselves album after album, but I'd take Barely Breathing over Lord I'm Discouraged and The Weekenders over Hostile, Mass. from the released stuff and bootleged stuff, there are some gems on this new album, sure it's not a 10/10 but it cant be all the time when you bat .750 for your entire career, batting .550 looks worse when most batters would kill for that average I was skeptical of this album before and then HJ came out and TW and BB and I went to Ardsley and while I might never like WCGT, I think this will be a listenable and enjoyable
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Post by shakerheights on Apr 9, 2010 23:55:01 GMT -5
Maybe to your ears but not mine. I think Rock Problems, We Can Get Together, and The Weekenders are all great songs (Hurricane J I agree with you about to a certain extent and I'm holding back from listening to anything else).
I personally think I like most of the stuff better than a lot of the songs from Stay Positive and even Almost Killed Me. While we may not be in line for their magnum opus, I don't think Heaven is Whenever will be the dud of their career either (if there ever is one).
Even though I'm new here, I wouldn't consider myself a kool-aid drinker either. With all the new music coming out around this time, I don't think I'd be listening to the new THS songs as much as I am if I didn't genuinely like them (I'm a huge Bruce fan too and stopped listening to Working on a Dream, one of the poorest albums of his career, a week or two after its release).
Just make sure you're open to the new songs, I think there's some great stuff here.
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Five Alive
Hoodrat
The sunshine bores the daylights out of me
Posts: 313
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Post by Five Alive on Apr 10, 2010 0:10:56 GMT -5
You may be right... and this is a Kool-Aid club to some extent, but I just don't have enough to go on to make a judgment.
I certainly don't want to form a too strong an opinion based on tracks I'm only hearing in a streaming format on computer speakers...
As for the live side, for me personally, I almost never enjoy songs I'm unfamiliar with (new stuff) in a live setting as much as "standards". That's just my nature.
Your point about using the new members to stretch out is well taken... Especially since they seem to be hand-picked by Tad. But it's all a process on the live side right now, just getting started with the new alignment.
Anyway, I want to live with the album for awhile...
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Post by barryjive on Apr 10, 2010 0:18:00 GMT -5
What's the point of this? We're all waiting for the same album. We've heard four songs. If you don't like them, fine. Maybe you'll still dislike them after the album comes out. And maybe you'll hate the rest of the album. But when that happens, are you going to feel better because you'll be able to look back and say, "Oh man, I told that Hold Steady message board this would happen when those four songs were out"? Is that what you want? Congratulations in advance. Now move along and let us enjoy the anticipation, for Christ's sake.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
Posts: 714
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Post by cre618 on Apr 10, 2010 0:44:58 GMT -5
I may in fact be a Kool-Aid drinker, but I can't deny that I've been listening to all 3 songs (now 4) non stop this week. I've tried to listen to other stuff, and I keep coming back. Specifically, I don't listen to much of Stay Positive as much these days as I used to. So, I'm not sure, and I'll give it time, but I think HIW may turn out to be better.....
But hey, that's what's nice.....dissenting opinions. Keep 'em coming.
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mcstevepants
Hoodrat
Shaky but still tryin' to shake it.
Posts: 400
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Post by mcstevepants on Apr 10, 2010 1:40:34 GMT -5
Incorrect.*
Every song is great.
*in my onion*
*onion=opinion
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 10, 2010 2:59:43 GMT -5
Four songs have been tipped and none are on the level of Hold Steady greats. There isn't a Stations, Hoodrat, Chips Ahoy, Swish, Constructive Summer in the new batch...any coincidence the four songs I've mentioned seem to be staples of the new tour? Actually, there is a Constructive Summer in there. It's called Our Whole Lives. No, Heaven Is Whenever probably isn't going to be one of the best albums of all time, like Separation Sunday is. But I'm still excited. New material is always fun, and Hold Steady's new material is better than most others. I agree with you on the Hurricane J response, though. I really don't get it, and still feel it's one of their weakest album tracks so far in their carreer. But I like The Weekenders, I really like Barely Breathing and I love Rock Problems. And I think these songs is at par with, or even better than songs like Navy Sheets, Magazines or Joke About Jamaica. Or Chillout Tent. Or Sketchy Metal. So I'm not that negative. I have been one of those preaching that we need to embrace disagreements and accept meanings that differ from the gospel. But I don't think it's either elegant nor fair to choose this "What's wrong with you, open your eyes!!!"-rhetoric. People obviously like the new songs. Maybe because they really want to, maybe because it just feels right. But who cares? Music is a personal thing, at what works for you.... works! It's simple as that. I think it would be much more interesting to read what you don't like about the songs, what you feel is missing and why the new material doesn't sound good compared to the old than you simply stating you're the one who really sees the truth, or something like that. Also, can someone explain someone with a limitied knowledge of the english language what that staples things mean? Is it some way of saying that the songs fall through, and don't get the same response as others live? Or that they seem to be featuring in every setlist?
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caz
True Scene Leader
Posts: 719
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Post by caz on Apr 10, 2010 4:12:45 GMT -5
It's weird, there's never going to be unanimous agreement on what people think is great and what people think is weak... so I guess I just don't see the point of threads about 'getting real' about the new stuff. No one can tell anyone else how they should be reacting to a song, and definitely no one can tell someone they are wrong to think a song is good.
I think maybe saying there are some real quesions that need to be addressed is a bit over the top - it's a band, it's an album, some songs. These things are important, but they aren't worth getting worried and wound up about. If this album doesn't live up to your hopes, it won't be the end of good music for the rest of your life. You'll probably just go listen to some other album that you do love. It's amazing falling in love with an album, but not falling in love with an album isn't something you should let really affect you.
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caz
True Scene Leader
Posts: 719
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Post by caz on Apr 10, 2010 4:13:22 GMT -5
Oh muzzleofbees a 'staple' in the set means a song they play all the time
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Post by muzzleofbees on Apr 10, 2010 4:18:18 GMT -5
Oh muzzleofbees a 'staple' in the set means a song they play all the time Thank you! Like something stapled to the set(list)?
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bigontheinside
Midnight Hauler
If you don't know the words, don't sing along
Posts: 1,477
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Post by bigontheinside on Apr 10, 2010 4:21:41 GMT -5
I think this is some of their best stuff. Truly. Ok, so in my opinion they'll never be able to top stations or first night - but those are probably my two favourite songs of all time! This is the way I see it: We Can Get Together > lord I'm discouaged Hurricane j > sequestered in Memphis Rock Problems = on par with barfruit blues the weekender > yeah sapphire, on par with party pit our whole lives > constructive summer barely breathing > one for the cutters
I've tried to match them to tracks with the same sort of feel. It kind of looks like I hate Stay Positive, but at times it's my favourite. And yes, I know, saying that Our Whole Lives is better than constructive might be controversial around here, but I think it somehow turned into one of my least favourites on SP. Maybe I overlistened to it.
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caz
True Scene Leader
Posts: 719
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Post by caz on Apr 10, 2010 4:28:01 GMT -5
Oh muzzleofbees a 'staple' in the set means a song they play all the time Thank you! Like something stapled to the set(list)? hehe, not quite because you can say things like rice is a staple food in my diet etc. You can use it in lots of contexts so I don't think it comes from the idea of stapling. In fact maybe staples (as in the little metal things) got their name from this use of 'staple'... Hmmm, we need theblonette to resurrect the etymology thread!
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Post by WhiskeyDaisy on Apr 10, 2010 9:54:16 GMT -5
Am I hearing different songs? Actually, I'm fairly certain that I just don't know anything about music.
At very least, the overwhelming misogyny of SP is not in this album (Magazines, Joke about Jamaica and a song called Slapped Actress, none of which I listen to any more). So far, there aren't songs that I just can't relate to (Townies? "I went there on business"??!?!??). So far, I haven't heard anything that reminds me of Christina Augilera's Genie in a Bottle (Cutters). Nor have I heard the weak lyrics of Handshake - ugh - easy theme to pick on, with forced words.
I guess I just felt like SP was talking AT us, and now I feel like THS is back WITH us.
I LOVE the references to previous THS songs and other bands and songs. I loved that about Lifter Puller and the early THS albums. (I love that about Marquez.)
The Weekenders reminds me of Rental.
I am NOT excited to hear the slower songs live. One of the things I fell in love with about THS shows is the non-stop energy. Exactly what reminded me of 7 Seconds. I'll miss that. Again.
XO WD
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shack3000
Cityscape Skin
Skull Cats are not a toy.
Posts: 30
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Post by shack3000 on Apr 10, 2010 10:27:48 GMT -5
People have talked a lot about the streaming songs, but the other stuff they've been playing live is pretty strong too. "Soft in the Center" has me hooked, even if I worry that I'll burn myself out on it if I over-listen to it. But the slow burn of "A Slight Discomfort" is pretty awesome, imo. I believe it's the album closer (on the standard version anyway), which it totally sounds like at the end, that epic peak of a finish, but my only worry after hearing the live version is if it can capture that same energy on the studio version. But it's definitely a thunderous finish to hear live.
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Post by jryan154 on Apr 10, 2010 11:08:59 GMT -5
...again the "give it time" will get repeated in an almost Pavlovian defense...There are some real q's that need to be addressed. Is everything okay? Like, seriously? Pavlovian? Let me go grab my dictionary real quick. This is a rock and roll band were talking about here, not a fucking master's degree thesis.
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Tom
Cityscape Skin
Posts: 6
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Post by Tom on Apr 10, 2010 11:43:39 GMT -5
The new songs aren't up to the standard of those of the previous three albums. Hurrijane J is a misfire at appealing to a broader audience and Rock Problems tries to split the difference for the band's 'long time' fans and a newer audience. I've seen two shows recently, and the the moral of each has been the same: the older songs are just better. (Save the "but the songs have to be tried on the road, first" lines). Four songs have been tipped and none are on the level of Hold Steady greats. There isn't a Stations, Hoodrat, Chips Ahoy, Swish, Constructive Summer in the new batch...any coincidence the four songs I've mentioned seem to be staples of the new tour? I'll give the time that I'm told is due, but when I see five pages of raves on Hurrijane J, I can't help but think people have drank a certain Kool-Aid. Why isn't the band experimenting more with the two new members? Both have been marginalized...Aren't Burlington, Albany, Woodstock (and any other off the grid location) opportunities to screw around... try a bad idea, NOT play IT SAFE...again the "give it time" will get repeated in an almost Pavlovian defense...There are some real q's that need to be addressed. I completely agree. I was considering posting something like this after hearing the new songs. I'm sorry, but to me they all sound awful. They're just not very good songs. They sound like they were written in about five minutes. They're self-referential in a very un-Hold Steady way. Reusing old lines etc used to be a nice way to tie everything together in the Hold Steady universe; it's rewarding for obsessive fans. But now when they slip something in that we've heard before, it's as if they're doing it to try and keep the old fans sweet. Maybe if they reuse enough lyrics we'll forget that the music is terrible? Also, what happened to Craig's voice? Jesus, on Rock Problems it sounds pretty terrible. I don't mean to be really negative, but that's just how I'm feeling based on the trajectory this band are taking. Stay Positive wasn't up to scratch, bar a few good songs, and this new album seems to be following that same decline. Basically, the Hold Steady are starting to sound like a dumb rock band. And for me the appeal of the Hold Steady was always that they were the antithesis of dumb rock. Ah well, at least we still have the first few albums to love.
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schlitsz
Clever Kid
someone's little brother
Posts: 119
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Post by schlitsz on Apr 10, 2010 13:01:46 GMT -5
People have talked a lot about the streaming songs, but the other stuff they've been playing live is pretty strong too. "Soft in the Center" has me hooked, even if I worry that I'll burn myself out on it if I over-listen to it. But the slow burn of "A Slight Discomfort" is pretty awesome, imo. I believe it's the album closer (on the standard version anyway), which it totally sounds like at the end, that epic peak of a finish, but my only worry after hearing the live version is if it can capture that same energy on the studio version. But it's definitely a thunderous finish to hear live. I was at the Toad's show and have the recording of the show as well. I love "A Slight Discomfort". I agree that it's a great album closer. Of course, the damn bonus tracks will ruin that unless you alter the order of the album instead of just adding them onto the end. I always just add them onto the end, though, since that's how I thought they were meant to be. I'm not big on messing with the order of the original album. Anyway, I've been walking around the past few days with the closing line "this shouldn't hurt, but you might feel a slight discomfort" stuck in my head constantly.
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Post by highonsound on Apr 10, 2010 13:12:34 GMT -5
They sound like they were written in about five minutes. They're self-referential in a very un-Hold Steady way. Reusing old lines etc used to be a nice way to tie everything together in the Hold Steady universe; it's rewarding for obsessive fans. But now when they slip something in that we've heard before, it's as if they're doing it to try and keep the old fans sweet. I'm having the same feelings about the lyrics. Those self-referential lines used to be slipped in so smoothly and you'd be like "oh, cool. i see what he did there." Now it feels like we're just being beat over the head with them. They feel forced into songs and I think they lose a lot of their charm when it starts becoming so blatant. As for the music...I don't know what to think. It feels more polished and less nuanced. Radio ready...maybe? I'll withhold further judgement until I can hear the whole album.
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Post by jwd on Apr 10, 2010 13:13:57 GMT -5
I disagree.
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Post by campfirewood1980 on Apr 10, 2010 13:23:48 GMT -5
I agree with JWD.
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shack3000
Cityscape Skin
Skull Cats are not a toy.
Posts: 30
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Post by shack3000 on Apr 10, 2010 13:38:11 GMT -5
I've been walking around the past few days with the closing line "this shouldn't hurt, but you might feel a slight discomfort" stuck in my head constantly. Yeah, I love that too. And I love the bridge lines, "And you say you're a princess/I remain unconvinced/I've seen the guys that you've been with/And they don't seem much like princes." A bunch of other lines in that section I like too. The wit is pretty great in some of the new lyrics. Like in Weekenders the line about "If you swear to keep it decent, yeah I'll come and see you, but it's not gonna be like in romantic comedies." Pretty great stuff. I can understand some points about the ham-handed nature of the self-referential lyrics, like the whole kitchen sequence in "Rock Problems," but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Overall, I'm thrilled to be jamming out to new Hold Steady tunes.
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cre618
True Scene Leader
Posts: 714
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Post by cre618 on Apr 10, 2010 14:10:09 GMT -5
Hurricane j > sequestered in Memphis I agree with all but this one. Though I think the production on Hurricane J is way better then the muddled sound of Sequestered.
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Post by Anodyne on Apr 10, 2010 14:19:54 GMT -5
I disagree, I actually really love the new stuff they're putting out (and I feel like one of the only people who really enjoys Hurricane J). Case in point, we all have different opinions about what qualifies as "great" music.
I love both the old stuff and the new stuff, just in different ways.
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Post by st5801 on Apr 10, 2010 14:35:13 GMT -5
The songs took some time to grow on me, but now I love all four of them. Give them a chance, take a break from listening for a few days then put them back on, or wait for the full album. Not everyone will love them, but I don't agree that they are worse than other songs by them.
There is a general "longing for the past" that happens in music, where everything is "better" when the listener first gets into it. Older albums get put on a pedestal that they may not be entirely deserving of. By the time a band gets to a 5th album, some people don't like it as much as older stuff. Some people don't want to see any change and try to dissect every motivation behind every song ("well Hurricane J MUST be designed to appeal to mainstream fans and Rock Problems is just there to appeal to old fans" you seriously think that crossed their mind?).
This happens to a lot of bands when an older album becomes the standard that everything else is compared to. I mean look at someone like Wilco or the Drive-By Truckers. I've seen these comments a million times: "well, its good, but they'll never make another Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" or "Its good, but all the albums with Jason Isbell are better". Yet if they made Yankee Hotel v2, Dirty South v2, or Separation Sunday v2, they'd be criticized for re-treading the same sound.
The reason these albums are so great is because you sit back and enjoy them and don't try to dissect them and read in to everything. If Knuckles was on this album, someone would be saying "Wow, they've lost it. Those lyrics are so cheesy." If Party Pit was on this album, the same thing would occur. "'Walk around and drink some more'!? Wow, they can't write anything else", would certainly be a post.
The same thing happens in pop music. Ask you parents, and they'll say "music was so much better when I was growing up". Then when you have kids, you'll say "What is this crap? Music was so much better when I was growing up" and so on. Its a similar phenomenon.
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