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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 18, 2021 21:44:39 GMT -5
#33: KATARINA AND THE K-HOLE... Which brings me to Katarina And The K-Hole, who’s one of the songs who make up a very well planned and exectued ending of the album, with a near-perfect balance of engaging and fast tracks where the band rock out, and more subtle breathers. This is in the latter category, and it makes the latter part of the album so damn good. The sweeping intro, the birds singing, the cut-up conversation who sets the scene, adds mystery, but also calmness, it anchors the final part of the album in such a good way. This is amplified by the guitars crushing in, and the conversation taking another direction. Like other songs, it feels like an important moment, frozen in time, but painted out in broad strokes in a song. All this suggest it might should’ve been higher on the list, but as a stand-alone song, there’s plenty of others I put a little higher. I just wanted to aknowledge its importance in the flow of a pretty perfect album. Everything you say is an essential argument for the song's importance, but for me there are two more factors in play. One, it's one of the few slow songs I really like in its own right (I mostly go for the other end of the spectrum, but there are exceptions; the majesty and internal variety that you point up --- intro, birds, guitars, conversation --- is a big part of why I like this one). Two, where most of the songs consist in a whiplash view of surrounding chaos, this one's a simple slice of the narrative, just a quiet conversation between the Narrator and one of the other chicks at the parties. Very unusual, and very nice. I think my ranking here is more influenced by the narrative-interpretation side of things than I'd like for the purposes of this list, but I can't help it. A deeply complete song, and all the way up at #8 for me.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 19, 2021 1:12:36 GMT -5
#34: PRESCRIPTION SUNGLASSESIt’s always something special about going back to the very first song of a band’s catalog. I wouldn’t know for sure if this is the first song they recorded, but the first release is always interesting anyway. I could add more weight to it than it deserves, simply because of this, but I really think it’s a damn fine rock’n’roll song. It has a lot the same vibe as the songs who ended up on the debut album, the slightly subdued and muted feeling, but it’s also pretty catchy, there’s some dark pop in here somewhere. And I think the simple chorus (which I think it’s fair to call it) carries an emotional weight, a coolness with substance, that pushes it a few places up this list. The image of hearing someone’s name getting drowned in the sound of a jet engine, coupled with “pretty little overdoser” is pretty explicit, yet vague. Even down to the title, it’s cool and laid back, I can envision the band playing this with an adolescent coolness, with sunglasses physically present. And there’s some lines to be drawn to Milkcrate Mosh here too: An opening single not that representative of what was to come, but still with identity and attitude who sets a path. My first experience with Prescription Sunglasses came after my first, and difficult, experience with the self-titled album; going back in time another year, I expected something in the same vein but less polished. So it was a real surprise to encounter, just as you say, a damn fine rock'n'roll song. I actually put it on several times after that, just to try to recapture that "holy shit they did this in 1994" feeling. And "they," of course, was just Dave Gerlach on drums and Craig on guitar/bass/vocals, meaning that Craig wrote the music. What's interesting to me about that is not just the legitimate complexity of what he's doing (multiple instruments, multiple sections), but the way in which the musical composition and the narrative composition work together so closely. You're right! I had totally forgot about Lifter Puller actaully being a duo for these first couple of songs. And that's actually really interesting, in many ways.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 19, 2021 1:14:21 GMT -5
I think my ranking here is more influenced by the narrative-interpretation side of things than I'd like for the purposes of this list, but I can't help it. A deeply complete song, and all the way up at #8 for me. I'm not surprised that some (well, you) would rate this a lot higher than myself, and I can see why. But all the way up at #8, that was a surprise!
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 19, 2021 2:58:07 GMT -5
#32: BACK IN BLACKBEARD
I’ve described quite a few tracks in this countdown as bridging devices on their respective albums. Back In Blackbeard is pretty much the opposite. Not only is it an outtake not tied to an official long player release (it was one of the songs intended for a hypothetical 4th album, if I remember correctly), it also sounds very much like a single, in every sense of the word.
The beefy opening riff turns into a very melodic verse, who most definitely points toward stuff that would eventually become Hold Steady. That aforementioned mix of rough edges and punky rock’n’roll, and sentimentality, romanticism, empathy. There’s also a slight shift of perspective here, with Craig seemingly watching it all from the outside, like a commentator to the scene rather than a participant in it, and this is embedded in the music too, I think. Not to mention the entire guys vs girls-theme that’s so present in his latter stuff. Yeah, this is pretty much a Hold Steady precursor.
It’s also really, really catchy. Not exactly deep or profound, but certainly a lot of fun. And the slightly weird bridge, where Nancy Seward enters to give Jenny a voice, is pretty awesome.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 19, 2021 20:29:28 GMT -5
#32: BACK IN BLACKBEARDI’ve described quite a few tracks in this countdown as bridging devices on their respective albums. Back In Blackbeard is pretty much the opposite. Not only is it an outtake not tied to an official long player release (it was one of the songs intended for a hypothetical 4th album, if I remember correctly), it also sounds very much like a single, in every sense of the word. The beefy opening riff turns into a very melodic verse, who most definitely points toward stuff that would eventually become Hold Steady. That aforementioned mix of rough edges and punky rock’n’roll, and sentimentality, romanticism, empathy. There’s also a slight shift of perspective here, with Craig seemingly watching it all from the outside, like a commentator to the scene rather than a participant in it, and this is embedded in the music too, I think. Not to mention the entire guys vs girls-theme that’s so present in his latter stuff. Yeah, this is pretty much a Hold Steady precursor. It’s also really, really catchy. Not exactly deep or profound, but certainly a lot of fun. And the slightly weird bridge, where Nancy Seward enters to give Jenny a voice, is pretty awesome. After reading this I had to go back and think about the rank of BiB among its near neighbors all over again ... it's a tough call. As an aside, those 5 late tracks were deliberately released as 7-inches; from Mike Daily's amazing 2000 "All The Right Moves, All The Wrong Notes: The Lifter Puller Story" interview ( link); Anyway: of those five amazing tracks, one of them has to be your least favorite; for you and me both, it's Back In Blackbeard. For the nth time, I feel like I have to apologize for having it down at #31. There are three things I love about this song: - above all, the title: it's great in a vacuum; it's also [narrative alert] probably the single most convincing proof of the fact that the Eyepatch Guy is the Narrator come back for revenge --- and, as such, one of the purest aha-moments --- in the whole canon.
- like you say, the bridge. "and i still ain't died. or have i?" could come off so weak, and instead (with the d-line, and the sunrise) just makes you that much keener to understand wtf happened.
- the "and the maple leaf rag" tag ... there are four or five things going on here, and only Craig Finn could pull them all together, let alone slip them in like a casual afterthought. Incredible.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 20, 2021 1:30:17 GMT -5
After reading this I had to go back and think about the rank of BiB among its near neighbors all over again ... it's a tough call. As an aside, those 5 late tracks were deliberately released as 7-inches; from Mike Daily's amazing 2000 "All The Right Moves, All The Wrong Notes: The Lifter Puller Story" interview ( link); Anyway: of those five amazing tracks, one of them has to be your least favorite; for you and me both, it's Back In Blackbeard. For the nth time, I feel like I have to apologize for having it down at #31. Yeah, as you can see, it's also the lowest ranked of the five songs for me - but it's an incredibly strong batch of songs! And that thing about these songs being specifically made for compilations, had passed me by. It sort of mess with a point I'm trying to make in the text about the next song out from this era, who will appear here in not many days. When the times come, you gotta take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 20, 2021 1:41:22 GMT -5
#31: THE MEZZANINE GYP
This feels very much like the earliest song who puts Lifter Puller’s core identity as a band on display. It’s surely not the only song eligible for a status like that, but it has this very clear and focused style and presence, the gritty underground stuff paired up with emotional despair and questionable moral judgements.
I really like how the ugly and dissonant intro, dizzying and frantic, opens up in a still very dark, but certainly poppy part with the “Nooow… I gotta eat my way out of it”. It’s so incredibly scary, but still determined and focused, musically and lyrically. And from there, it just turns weirder.
I’ve written off plenty of songs similar to this earlier in the countdown, but I feel that this has something special. It’s hard to describe it in detail, but there’s something in the energy, identity and purpose who makes it stick out. And while it can’t compete with some of the later bangers, I hold it high as one of the first songs where Lifter Puller gave us an idea of what they were about to become.
In some way, I feel like I should say something more about this. It feels heavy, meaningful, in a way I can’t really put into words. It’s this vague feeling of importance, of gravitas, that make it stick out from similar songs from the same era. It feels very complete, as an idea and a work of art, but it’s a little too gritty for me to really, really love.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 20, 2021 20:20:52 GMT -5
Mezzanine, when I first started listening, was always a hard one for me. It was the one track I'd usually skip on the bus ride, the one track I'd "make sure" not to introduce people to the band with. (Funnily enough, one friend liked it more than all the other ones I'd shown him prior)
But, over the years, I've begun to see it much like you do. It's brilliantly discordant, ugly, and energetic. The vocal distortion fitting the thematic elements of the track—it's all pushing that same button of "How ridiculous would this idea be? Let's do it" that can make or break indie rock. I've come to really love the song, in the end. It's probably fairly low in my list still, as much as I have changed my opinions over the years. Probably still my least favorite of the early singles, but that's always changing on a day-to-day basis
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 21, 2021 23:40:59 GMT -5
#30: THE BEARS
From the gritty mess of The Mezzanine Gyp to the fuzzy indiepop perfection of The Bears - it’s quite a jump. Lifter Puller have a few of these very poppy songs, and even though there’s pretty much always some darkness lurking around in the subtext, this is one of the poppiest.
Not just the unusual clear and crisp riff, there’s also an urgency on Craig’s part here, and it’s the kind of urgency who’s more connected to him as a singer and frontman than as the narrator of really fucked up and fast-moving tales. Well, that too, but the forwardness here is mostly musical, like this was a deliberate shot at a minor indie hit.
As with so many other short and poppy Lifter Puller songs, it sort of descends into something darker towards the end, but it’s mostly quite light on its feet. And I get fucking chills from the “his friends busted in, screaming rodeo” line.
Bonus: Lifter Puller performing on The Jenny Jones show in 1999
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 22, 2021 17:13:47 GMT -5
#31: THE MEZZANINE GYPThis feels very much like the earliest song who puts Lifter Puller’s core identity as a band on display. It’s surely not the only song eligible for a status like that, but it has this very clear and focused style and presence, the gritty underground stuff paired up with emotional despair and questionable moral judgements. ... In some way, I feel like I should say something more about this. It feels heavy, meaningful, in a way I can’t really put into words. It’s this vague feeling of importance, of gravitas, that make it stick out from similar songs from the same era. It feels very complete, as an idea and a work of art, but it’s a little too gritty for me to really, really love. That's an interesting take, and actually pretty hard to argue with. There are definitely things I like about the song --- the intricate Wall Street/Main Street/inside trading/mezzanine capital/gyp-plus-ripoff metaphors, the hammerhead shark with his eyes two miles apart, and the whole aha-moment with "a little situation went down and now ..." But it's not a song I'm psyched to hear; this was my #53. Your argument makes me want to rethink that, but it's going to end up way down there, no matter what.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 22, 2021 17:19:44 GMT -5
#30: THE BEARSFrom the gritty mess of The Mezzanine Gyp to the fuzzy indiepop perfection of The Bears - it’s quite a jump. Lifter Puller have a few of these very poppy songs, and even though there’s pretty much always some darkness lurking around in the subtext, this is one of the poppiest. So much stuff to tease out of this song --- reference to the Wizard of Oz, football, Bear culture, and that enigmatic "i know that you're scared/ but i suggest you go back to the bears, the bears, the bears" line near the end; as a text, I like it a lot. As a song, this one too doesn't do much for me: #46 on my list. The fact that they snuck it onto the Jenny Jones show after Roaming The Foam was deemed too hard is legendary, though, for sure.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 23, 2021 2:12:06 GMT -5
#31: THE MEZZANINE GYPThis feels very much like the earliest song who puts Lifter Puller’s core identity as a band on display. It’s surely not the only song eligible for a status like that, but it has this very clear and focused style and presence, the gritty underground stuff paired up with emotional despair and questionable moral judgements. ... In some way, I feel like I should say something more about this. It feels heavy, meaningful, in a way I can’t really put into words. It’s this vague feeling of importance, of gravitas, that make it stick out from similar songs from the same era. It feels very complete, as an idea and a work of art, but it’s a little too gritty for me to really, really love. That's an interesting take, and actually pretty hard to argue with. There are definitely things I like about the song --- the intricate Wall Street/Main Street/inside trading/mezzanine capital/gyp-plus-ripoff metaphors, the hammerhead shark with his eyes two miles apart, and the whole aha-moment with "a little situation went down and now ..." But it's not a song I'm psyched to hear; this was my #53. Your argument makes me want to rethink that, but it's going to end up way down there, no matter what. As you can tell, I was pretty conflicted about this. I can totally see it close to the bottom at the list too, but I think I gave it the benefit of the doubt, and chose to praise it's pretty unique qualities in the catalog. And I could be a little to concerned about spreading the tracks from each album throughout the list. I genuinely think it's tough to rate a LOT of these songs, and I keep coming back to just how hard it is to boil down my own takes on these tracks - in a good way. Some of the songs have very singular, very unique things to them, somewhere in between the interesting, the pleasing and the jaw-dropping. There's quick and rocky songs I love on a surface level, there's these deep and intricate narrative songs, and there's the ugly and angular ones, with a massive identity and mood to them. My admiration for the entire Lifter Puller project is still growing.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 23, 2021 2:17:06 GMT -5
#29: SUBLETA few posts ago I said that there’s not that many Lifter Puller songs I have this clear and evocative real-life time-and-place connected to them. But this is actually one of them, and it’s a) tied to the lyrics, b) to Alright Alright and c) how that lyric oriented rollercoaster have changed my relationship with Lifter Puller in general and the self titled debut more specifically. Those lines about “two at the times through the turnstiles” sends me right back to my parents in law’s kitchen, where I remember reading a long and elaborate e-mail from skepticatfirst about that line, and so many other things. I think it was the summer of 2019, and that gives the rest of you a hint of how long in the making that incredible thread really were. But that’s not the main reason this song features so high on this list. I just think it’s a damn fine song, so well-written, balanced and cool, in all its mid 90s indie-clothings. Where other (early) Lifter Puller songs grab me by one single part or -feature, I think every single part of Sublet have something special to it. From the a capella opener, the almost grungy little riff, the way Craig goes down in a deep register halfway through, and the more dream-like part about the incredible-looking city slickers at the end, and the grit that comes with them. It's sweet, in a way, empathetic and close, while rocking. Close to how I like my 90s indierock in general. It makes it a little bit generic, in the sense that it could have been written by a lot of great bands, but that's not a bad thing either. It’s not huge in any sense, it’s just a very good song.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 23, 2021 13:14:08 GMT -5
Perfectly put, one of my favorite songs of theirs. I have similar feelings for Bloomington (which is *way* up there for me). I do agree that it's a bit more generic, but I love it anyways
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 23, 2021 20:37:02 GMT -5
#29: SUBLETA few posts ago I said that there’s not that many Lifter Puller songs I have this clear and evocative real-life time-and-place connected to them. But this is actually one of them, and it’s a) tied to the lyrics, b) to Alright Alright and c) how that lyric oriented rollercoaster have changed my relationship with Lifter Puller in general and the self titled debut more specifically. Those lines about “two at the times through the turnstiles” sends me right back to my parents in law’s kitchen, where I remember reading a long and elaborate e-mail from skepticatfirst about that line, and so many other things. I think it was the summer of 2019, and that gives the rest of you a hint of how long in the making that incredible thread really were. But that’s not the main reason this song features so high on this list. I just think it’s a damn fine song, so well-written, balanced and cool, in all its mid 90s indie-clothings. Where other (early) Lifter Puller songs grab me by one single part or -feature, I think every single part of Sublet have something special to it. From the a capella opener, the almost grungy little riff, the way Craig goes down in a deep register halfway through, and the more dream-like part about the incredible-looking city slickers at the end, and the grit that comes with them. It's sweet, in a way, empathetic and close, while rocking. Close to how I like my 90s indierock in general. It makes it a little bit generic, in the sense that it could have been written by a lot of great bands, but that's not a bad thing either. It’s not huge in any sense, it’s just a very good song. That's funny! I have the same email exchange burned into my head from your figuring out the "Greece" [Sublet] -> "greasers" [BBender] solution to the Pantheon (Parthenon?) mystery. That puzzle, in the front row of LP cruxes, is just one of the reasons why I like Sublet as much as I do. There are others: Craig Finn has a shit-ton of "it started" lyrics, some of which ("ice cream social nice") are among my very favorite lines of his, ever. But none of them ever felt as much like the true, here-we-go-kids beginning of the story as the opening of Sublet. Which, for the rest, is followed --- something that doesn't happen very often in the Lifter Puller world --- by a rush of pure happiness when those guitars kick in, and then again when they walk out of the party, leaving the roommates and the tangle of the subway fare behind. Sublet is by far the most accessible of the songs on the first album, and by that I mean something more than that it's catchy and poppy: without presupposing a single external data point, it treats us to this instantly intriguing sketch of a guy picking up a girl in contested circumstances, one that alludes to far more than it says outright while yet being totally believable. A favorite listen, and #13 on my list.
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 24, 2021 1:03:09 GMT -5
#28: BLOOMINGTONIf I was to make one change on the now (pretty much) final list, it would probably be to push this a few places down the list (sorry, thrasher9294). Revisiting these songs, and especially opening up my thoughts on the songs from the self titled debut, have made me reconsider a few things. One of them is that Bloomington might not be a standout track from that album. Still, it’s a decent tune! I absolutely love that obscure (I would guess, though I don’t really know if this is familiar stuff for people following the sport) reference in the intro, who at a pure how-it-sounds level, sounds damn good, and still carry so much meaning. And I think it’s pretty great how the gritty and distorted intro turns into a steady and sweet indierock vibe. From that point, I think the songs lose a little momentum. There’s plenty of cool lyrical turns here, and the general mood of the song is pleasant. It just doesn’t quite deliver on the build-up the intro suggests, and it sort of ends abruptly. A good idea, a little underdeveloped. Still, there's an inventiveness and energy here, not just from the music, but (again) from the general vibe or sense of Craig's mental approach to the material. I guess you could say it's always interesting, and that's a big deal for me, listening to music. But, yeah, I’ll keep it at #28, with the disclaimer that a revision of this list probably would push it 12-15 places down the list. I really don't want to make this thread into a meta-discussion of my own rankings, but I keep coming back to how hard I find it to compare some of these songs.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 24, 2021 13:39:50 GMT -5
I can understand that, for sure. Much of what you said for Sublet apply to Bloomington for me as well, and your mention of "gritty and distorted intro turns into a steady and sweet indierock" is a big part of why I love the music in it. The first cymbal crash around 1:15, and that descending bassline is one of my favorites in the genre.
The lyrics, to me, make it really special. Something about the juxtaposition of the music with all of these phrases that, for one reason or another, have stuck with me. The stark use of Craig's at-times off-putting voice in the intro saying all of these boastful things, or perhaps it's because "90's neo-noir indie rock" is so well-encapsulated by these two verses, for me:
Not to mention the mall motif/setting. It's probably the cheesiest, most on-the-nose use of "noir" voice in their music—usually a quality I find off-putting, as it makes it feel more "theatrical" than I like. It's likely the first-person perspective then, I suppose.
The music is what really makes it though, something about that guitar line throughout...
Still, it's a hard call for me between it, Double Straps, and Sublet for my favorite Self-titled track.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 24, 2021 21:33:50 GMT -5
#28: BLOOMINGTONIf I was to make one change on the now (pretty much) final list, it would probably be to push this a few places down the list (sorry, thrasher9294 ). Revisiting these songs, and especially opening up my thoughts on the songs from the self titled debut, have made me reconsider a few things. One of them is that Bloomington might not be a standout track from that album. Still, it’s a decent tune! I absolutely love that obscure (I would guess, though I don’t really know if this is familiar stuff for people following the sport) reference in the intro, who at a pure how-it-sounds level, sounds damn good, and still carry so much meaning. And I think it’s pretty great how the gritty and distorted intro turns into a steady and sweet indierock vibe. From that point, I think the songs lose a little momentum. There’s plenty of cool lyrical turns here, and the general mood of the song is pleasant. It just doesn’t quite deliver on the build-up the intro suggests, and it sort of ends abruptly. A good idea, a little underdeveloped. Still, there's an inventiveness and energy here, not just from the music, but (again) from the general vibe or sense of Craig's mental approach to the material. I guess you could say it's always interesting, and that's a big deal for me, listening to music. But, yeah, I’ll keep it at #28, with the disclaimer that a revision of this list probably would push it 12-15 places down the list. I really don't want to make this thread into a meta-discussion of my own rankings, but I keep coming back to how hard I find it to compare some of these songs. This is exactly what happened to me --- Bloomington started up in the mix with Double Straps and Jeep Beep Suite, and then I started having to make hard choices. In the end, I think it gave more ground with respect to its initial rank than any other song except Plymouth Rock and Lonely In A Limousine; I've got it at #44. The opening line is, in fact, a mindblower, and ties directly into the setting of the Megamall, which is built on the site of the old Metropolitan Stadium where Killebrew hit the slam off Blue (the Megamall/Metrodome parallel shows that this mall/stadium link is intended). This internal lyrical complexity is gripping in its own right; but what really gets me is the narrative complexity --- already, at this incredibly early stage of the game, Craig set out to write a song from the POV of Juanita, with enough reflections from the other side in Star Wars Hips to let you know that it's her speaking. Talk about swinging for the fences. I can understand that, for sure. Much of what you said for Sublet apply to Bloomington for me as well, and your mention of "gritty and distorted intro turns into a steady and sweet indierock" is a big part of why I love the music in it. The first cymbal crash around 1:15, and that descending bassline is one of my favorites in the genre. ... The music is what really makes it though, something about that guitar line throughout... After I found that I'd knocked it down all the way to #44, I convinced myself that the two-chord seesaw was the reason for the song's low ceiling; then I read what you wrote here, and had to go back and listen to it all over again. And you're right --- both the opening swell, and the cymbal crash after the bridge, are really dramatic stuff; there's a lot more going on in the song than just the two chords. But I also think muzzleofbees is right about the loss of momentum, especially from the bridge through to the end. So after all that, I'll stick with my ranking. I've still got it above Hardware, The Bears, and Plymouth Rock --- hardly faint praise. Just too many good songs to choose from!
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 25, 2021 3:37:02 GMT -5
#27: MATH IS MONEY
Let’s take some time to consider this hypothetical scenario: Instead of calling it quits in 2000, the entire band move to New York to take an earnest shot at the bigtime. With them, they bring the first songs of what could have turned out to be Lifter Puller’s fourth album: Secret Santa Cruz, 4 Dix, Back In Blackbeard, La Quereria - and Math Is Money. It’s a batch of songs surprisingly in touch with what was happening in the US (but also in the UK) at the time: Fuzzy garage guitars over a steady and dry backbone who had some resemblance to early 80s postpunk and new wave, with a talky singer on the top of it. In New York, bands like Strokes, Interpol, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, but also Liars, TV On The Radio and others, were starting up and refining their sound. They all had different takes on this “sound”, but were pretty much associated by bringing rock’n’roll (in some way or the other) back into the city- and soundscapes.
Lifter Puller could easily have fitted in here. Slightly more punky and alternative than some of the household names, with Craig Finn as the enigmatic frontman, and with their heavy Twin Cities focus as a nice niche thing to their name. They could have opened for The Strokes, and being labeled as the wild seniors to match Strokes’ youthfulness. They could have opened for Interpol and being labeled as the band who in a dressed-down way sped up the sweeping postpunk of Interpol, and added energy and rawness to the scene. In 2002 they could have released their breakthrough album, critically acclaimed and respected, doing the European festival circuit.
Instead, they broke up, Craig and Tad headed to New York, and when Hold Steady saw the light of day in 2003-04, it was as an antithesis to the very movement Lifter Puller could have been a part of. “Anti trucker-hat music”, as Pitchfork once labeled them. “The 80s almost killed me/ let’s not recall them quite so fondly”, as Craig himself sneered towards the current flavour of the week back then.
I get that this counterfactual historical exercise is pretty flawed, but it’s by no means unthinkable. And it’s really interesting to hear late Lifter Puller in this perspective. To me, they’ve always sounded unique, and a little bit outside of space and time. But there’s plenty of bands emerging in the early 00s who have lots of similarities to the core identity of Lifter Puller too. And especially in these latest songs, the batch of songs who sounds finished, ready for release, but instead of being a part of a LP4, ended up as singles spread out on various compilations and seven inches.
Math Is Money is really a masterpiece, in its own way. And it marks a pretty big leap forward, even from the close-to-perfect Fiestas And Fiascos. It’s a great song, musically, but for me, this is the grand Craig Finn show at display. There’s few songs where he sounds so damn confident, so in sync with his own vision, just blasting out these intricate, well-formulated and rap-like lines, like he knows he’s the master of his game. The drum machine and the guest appearance from Slug from Atmosphere just adds to the vibe. Craig is fucking Jay-Z here, on the top of his game, and in total control of it all. I love it.
It’s also a song who could have been pushed 20 places up the list. When I put it here in the middle of the list, it’s because this is a song who’s more impressive and powerful than straight up lovable - for me, at least. Intellectually pleasing, jaw-dropping, a demonstration of power. But still pretty cold and harsh. I hope this text serves it justice, and that you guys get how good I think it is - even with a pretty low ranking.
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Post by thrasher9294 on Aug 25, 2021 11:36:08 GMT -5
Damn near perfectly agree with everything you said. Love the insight into the relevant music scene as well, I've never thought of considering them in that context before. I did always love the aggro-level Craig in this one, pretty mind-blowing. I totally love the almost 8-bit crushed bassline in... huh, I guess this another one with a chorus?
When I saw them open for Atmosphere in 2016, there was a part of me that was really, really hoping Slug would come out and they'd do this track together. Killed me when it didn't happen
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 25, 2021 15:18:04 GMT -5
Damn near perfectly agree with everything you said. Love the insight into the relevant music scene as well, I've never thought of considering them in that context before. Me neither, really. It's surprisingly hard to put a band like Lifter Puller - a band I discovered a decade after they disbanded, and never were big enough to be put into much of a context at all by a general public/music discourse - into a historical timeline in the first place. And they've always been this little unique capsule to me, made relevant by my love for Hold Steady, and then existing as a singular entity. But I remember seeing them labeled as postpunk online, and rolling my eyes of how inaccurate that term really were. I still think it's really far fetched, but I've sort of opened my eyes to the postpunk-y qualities of some of their stuff, and that these quialities aren't that far off some of the hottest new bands of the early 2000s. I doubt that they would have broke through in that scene, but there's a lot to them who make it not-entirely-impossible. We all know Craig's ability to build a concept, an arch, myth, and at the right place at the right time, it could have worked.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 25, 2021 18:38:44 GMT -5
#27: MATH IS MONEY... I get that this counterfactual historical exercise is pretty flawed, but it’s by no means unthinkable. And it’s really interesting to hear late Lifter Puller in this perspective. To me, they’ve always sounded unique, and a little bit outside of space and time. But there’s plenty of bands emerging in the early 00s who have lots of similarities to the core identity of Lifter Puller too. And especially in these latest songs, the batch of songs who sounds finished, ready for release, but instead of being a part of a LP4, ended up as singles spread out on various compilations and seven inches. Math Is Money is really a masterpiece, in its own way. And it marks a pretty big leap forward, even from the close-to-perfect Fiestas And Fiascos. It’s a great song, musically, but for me, this is the grand Craig Finn show at display. There’s few songs where he sounds so damn confident, so in sync with his own vision, just blasting out these intricate, well-formulated and rap-like lines, like he knows he’s the master of his game. The drum machine and the guest appearance from Slug from Atmosphere just adds to the vibe. Craig is fucking Jay-Z here, on the top of his game, and in total control of it all. I love it. It’s also a song who could have been pushed 20 places up the list. When I put it here in the middle of the list, it’s because this is a song who’s more impressive and powerful than straight up lovable - for me, at least. Intellectually pleasing, jaw-dropping, a demonstration of power. But still pretty cold and harsh. I hope this text serves it justice, and that you guys get how good I think it is - even with a pretty low ranking. Your counterfactual is pretty compelling. I don't know enough about the 2000's New York music scene to judge their appeal in that environment per se, but everything I've read about the end of Lifter Puller is about their burning out from trying, and failing, to achieve real ex-Twin-Cities escape velocity; it's hard not to think that starting from NYC might have been enough to put them over the edge. Fiestas & Fiascos is right up there with Sep Sunday as an integral masterpiece, and the leap in quality from there to the final 7-inches is scary. Not unthinkable at all. As for Math Is Money itself, to your point about being in command, the way Craig slides out of the narrative and straight into hellfire preaching ("this is sonic economics and i'll put it on a graph for you to prove") is impressive. Love that berserker overdrive. Lots of key narrative bits tucked into this one, too, and even without them the surface-level "story of the kids called the crabs" is engrossing and memorable. #23 for me.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 25, 2021 18:51:14 GMT -5
When I saw them open for Atmosphere in 2016, there was a part of me that was really, really hoping Slug would come out and they'd do this track together. Killed me when it didn't happen I saw THS open for Frank Turner *on Landsdowne*, the actual street, in the only venue on the block, a one-in-a-zillion chance ... no LDoL though
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Post by muzzleofbees on Aug 26, 2021 2:01:23 GMT -5
#26: MISSION VIEJO
So, we’ve already touched on what criterias we lay down to rank the individual songs. And Mission Viejo is an outlier for me, in the way that a very recent version of the song is the main reason it features so high: This is one of two (I think?) Lifter Puller songs still played frequently live by Craig Finn. And the sore, naked version of Mission Viejo sounds so beautiful. It’s also the version who inspired me to make my own version of the song, with Norwegian lyrics (and that’s of course led to my relationship to the song growing even stronger).
The original song is a different beast, but it’s also really, really good. I’ve talked so much about the s/t debut in this thread, and in a way it keeps surprising me how much different stuff they crammed into it. This is maybe the straightest, most rock-ish song on the entire album, a soundwise full and meaty song built on a simple but good riff. No bullshit, no compromises, no second thoughts. And while it’s not as exciting and multi-layered as other songs, it sure does the job.
I could have ranked it a little bit lower on the list, but pretty close to the middle sounds about right, all things considered.
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Post by skepticatfirst on Aug 26, 2021 22:57:22 GMT -5
#26: MISSION VIEJOSo, we’ve already touched on what criterias we lay down to rank the individual songs. And Mission Viejo is an outlier for me, in the way that a very recent version of the song is the main reason it features so high: This is one of two (I think?) Lifter Puller songs still played frequently live by Craig Finn. And the sore, naked version of Mission Viejo sounds so beautiful. It’s also the version who inspired me to make my own version of the song, with Norwegian lyrics (and that’s of course led to my relationship to the song growing even stronger). The original song is a different beast, but it’s also really, really good. I’ve talked so much about the s/t debut in this thread, and in a way it keeps surprising me how much different stuff they crammed into it. This is maybe the straightest, most rock-ish song on the entire album, a soundwise full and meaty song built on a simple but good riff. No bullshit, no compromises, no second thoughts. And while it’s not as exciting and multi-layered as other songs, it sure does the job. I could have ranked it a little bit lower on the list, but pretty close to the middle sounds about right, all things considered. Mission Viejo is a song that's hit me pretty hard more than once, and I'm going to have a hard time justifying my ranking without getting more personal than I'm really prepared to do. But here goes. I haven't heard any recent version of it except yours, so this is based on the original (although when I hear the final lines in my head now I hear the harmony from your "en ukes tid til skolestart," rather than the melody from Craig's; yours is, really, amazing). I admit that what gets me about this song has a lot to do with the context. It's the one look we get at the world of Craig Finn before The Story, before "such bang-up fun" gets burned forever into consequences that you can't just shake by quitting. At the same time, the foundations of what's to come are all there and plain to see: it's the old mission, a stripped-down pilot for the new one (the one called by that name in both Esther and Confusion in the Marketplace). And he did it when he was 21, with a fine lyrical feel that's impressive for that age. But it's not only the context; the song itself is great. In the Back To The City podcast interview (at around 15:50: link), Steve called it "the strongest song" on the first album, and they don't call the man the Pop Music Genius because he has a tin ear. After the dissonance and struggle of most of the album up to that point, the warmth and fullness of the opening always gets me; the drum and bass here really do sound a lot like rolling thunder, like we've broken through to something less guarded and more real. (The BAGIA rerelease demo version of Chillout Tent has a rainy warmth that's very similar; I think it's a genuine quality of the song, and not just something that appears by contrast with the rest of the album.) That gives you an idea; I like it a lot. Way up at #4 on my list.
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